nooBie noOBie NOob nOOb!!!!

[Hook]

Yes - I believe {DOU} does have a Deemer server.
I myself may be putting one up for awhile on occasion only while CG & MRS are down - just to fill in, but I do not have the mod. (yet)
I need Hermskii to contact me about that.
Oh - the spawn killing subject (FYI) has been hashed out in this forum many, many times.
It is fairly touchy to some - that is why so much fallout, etc. LOL
Yes these are just opinions! That is all!
Oh - I myself do not use the Xloc very much - only when absolutely needed.
Now this is MY OPINION ONLY!!! ...
I know the xloc is valuable to many & that is OK but...
Being that it is virtually imposible to frag a player that is constantly moving using the xloc, I consider it a cheat at times.
(Remember - this is ONLY MY Opinion!!!)(No long rebuttal is necessary - I understand YOUR point on this)
I believe IMO that xlocs should only be used to attain out-of-reach locations & as a weapon.
Of course, I am not the best at using it anyway - I consider it kinda clumsy to use.
So, if I can survive (and sometimes win) without the translocator, even though the other players are using them, I believe that it isn't totally necessary. (Just my opinion)

[a nameless entity]

Herm makes a good point. Perhaps MEAT should run his server with only the stock maps and the redeemer only mod. I suggest that MEAT should try this when he goes on holidays for 2 or 3 weeks, as I know he hates the idea already. BUT it would be a good lesson for those who "Expletive Deleted" about spawn killing. With no translocator, and being stuck in smaller maps, you will learn to survive, or quit.

If you stick with it you will become good at understanding such things as how the blast effect travels along walls, and you will see that running down a curving corridor will not save you, but turning a corner will, etc. You will also get good at estimating the size of the nukes blast area, and will find you can routinely survive near misses if you move fast enough. You will also be amazed at the times you survived by pushing yourself up hard against even the thinnest of posts and letting the blast of a near hit on the opposite side wash all around you. You may end up severely burned, but you lived!
And don't forget defensive fire! You can shoot down the other players rockets and survive, if you do it correctly.

These are some of the kinds of skills I that was referring to in my other post. Learn them, and the maps by heart, and you will be able to take out that spawn killer. And yes, there is skill involved in routinely winning the spawn kill style maps. Try playing in Oblivion or Fractal a lot if you don't believe me. Eventually someone will rediscover Mahatma's favourite spot beside the post on the bottom floor in Fractal, and will be able to use it as effectively as he did. ( I admit that try as I might, I could never figure out how he could stay alive for so long in that spot!)

At the risk of sounding like I'm doing a flip-flop here, I must point out that I actually agree with MEAT's opinion in many respects. In my self appointed job as the finder of new maps that worked in redeemer arena for us to play in, I found myself recommending more and more often the larger maps, just for the change of pace. I came to enjoy the hunting aspect of playing in larger maps too. I took a lot of flak for this, as many of the regulars preferred fast and furious games to long and slow ones.

To each his own I guess. But I do say that anyone who gets a burr in his butt over someone else's style of play should realize that there is no "wrong" way to play this game. If you feel you are losing a match "unfairly" to someone else's style of play, then the problem lies with you, not the guy who is whipping your ass. It is entirely up to you to learn the techniques required to survive, and to be able to root out the guy from his spot. It can be done. You just need to learn how to do it.

[Hook]

I would just like to state that I myself was/am NOT "Bitching", nor do I have "a burr up my butt" - I just stated MY opinion. - FYI for clarity!
I am fine with the way Redeemer Arena is!
If you meant some other people, OK, or just meant for people in general, OK, but just wanted to clarify MY possition!
It is nice that CG & MRS are the same mod but set up different.
Great for variety! I go to between Both servers for change - LOL!
Maybe I will set up the OLD SKOOL Redeemer server that Nameless & Hermskii are speaking of!
Good idea??? Let me know!
It is almost there now - set up as Old Skool.
I just need Hermskii to verify the mod so I get the correct one!

[DARKMATTER]

{DOU} Has a multi server with redeemer in it you just have to vote for it..
its on the 3rd list under redeemer fun...

It can be found at...

Clan {DOU} -=JailBreakIII/FreezeTag/UZI/Redeemer/FreeStyle Sniper Server=- 66.128.50.219:7777

DM

[Hermskii]

Hey Monkey, great posts so far. You will be fun! MEAT hasn't run his server long enough to try every version of everything like I have. He started his as mine basically then started adding to it to his taste. I helped him build MRS but he's made on the improvements himself!

Go to www.RedeemerInsaity.com and find the forum. On the top of the forum is a sticky for Deemer Servers. You will find several that are still operational there. Good luck. Have fun.

[bumMmonkeY]

hey guys,
i just wanna clarify, im not having a whinge on the basis that the spawn killers are actually anywhere near able to beat me...a spawn kller (usually) has a SHOCKIN FPH rate on MRS maps. there is one dude in particular, outside of Noob City and Hall Of NobJockys hes lucky to score one frag.. the kinda player you can stand behind for ten minutes b4 he realises and shoots his own feet. Nine times out of ten they come in around the bottom of the result list.
I cant really say im bitchin...as bitchin kinda denotes that there is something to gain by my comments...id just like to give spawn killers an alternative thought to what they consider MRS to be....they know how to play properly, they know spawn killers amount to scum stuck to the sole of my shoe....they know cuz as stated before, they get iggy'd and abused and put quite simply, none likes them except for OTHER dickheads of the same caliber who at the end of the game have the ordasity to congradulate each other wit "gg's" and "gee that was close!"
....wouldnt know a gg if it jumped up and sack-whacked em!!
its simply just not cricket!

I just wish someone would set up a mod saying...any more than say..3 kills in 10 sec or so will result in a suicide.(i mean if your not spawn killing, its not likely youd kill more than 3ppl in 10 secs on most the maps, unless your MEAT of course, but he deserves a lil punishing anyway.)
, (and a large map only server will happen....i can only wish) now the xloc, hook, you were saying how its kinda cheating...im the oposite opinion hey, i LOOOOOVE it when someone comes up starts blasting and the buggers off with the xloc, makes that frag sooooo much sweeter when you anticipate where hes goin. DAMN I LOVE THIS GAME...
any who,
iS MEAT back yet??? god, it feels like 2 weeks already when your playin kidcapri's... and to prove i can spawn kill like the rest of those wimps, thats all kidcapri's is...spawnkillin to the max!!!
im finding it hard there to find someone who can get over 5frags whiilst i reach 40...sooooooooooooooooooooooooo boring. lol
anyway,
later
bumMonkey

[MEAT]

The debate and "Beating of the Dead Horse" lives on...lol
I told myself I would not do this but I am sitting in a Internet Cafe/Bar in Osaka Japan with a beer in my hand checking messages.
I sure would like to add some dialog here but I am half drunk and my time is limited. Plus, this damn key board is very confusing...lol
Can not wait until I get back to add some thought to this subject but it looks like bumMmonkeY is doing a good job spreading the gospel on Redeemer.
This would be a good time to set up a poll on the clarity of Redeeming.
I need a drink.....

[Scify]

The debate and "Beating of the Dead Horse" lives on...lol
I told myself I would not do this but I am sitting in a Internet Café/Bar in Osaka Japan with a beer in my hand checking messages.
I sure would like to add some dialog here but I am half drunk and my time is limited. Plus, this damn key board is very confusing...lol
Can not wait until I get back to add some thought to this subject but it looks like bumMmonkeY is doing a good job spreading the gospel on Redeemer.
This would be a good time to set up a poll on the clarity of Redeeming.
I need a drink.....

I saw your name here . Meat in Japan. That place I like to see but I maybe I never get there. I hope you enjoy and don't drink to much Sake'

[Hermskii]

For the record, I failed to mention this in a previous post about how I've already done it all etc etc:

Just like Nameless_Entity, I prefer large maps. Especially really good ones where you can hunt around and find cool hiding spots or hide up in the skyline and stuff like that. I ran CG several times with either no weopons at all but translocators so we'd have time to scope out new maps. Again, the grappling hook is almost even more fun. Wait, it is more fun for sure when I think about it but I tend to listen to the masses plus include my own old and stubborn opion and the final result is CG and MHM.

Most of the original players hated the translocator and at first refused to play. Many stopped altogether but many more stayed and learned how to use them. Ask MEAT who taught him. Hehehe. I know that sticks him like a thorn a little each time I take credit for anything he has learned to do so well. Hehehe. I'll give him his credit though, he is a really good player and far exceeds my skills currently but I certainly used to be just as good back 2-3 years ago when I played UT. Now, I just sit back and serve and watch. I play here and there but I suck so bad now it is nearly more frustrating than fun unless I'm playing on MHM.

Hook, you may be on to something with the concept of running an old skool server for Redeemer Mod. I did that before too. Anybody here remember "Curious George's Redeemer Playground" or "Curious George's Newbie Training Grounds"? Funny, there were 5 other servers too and I can't think of another name for any of them. Anyone else remember?

Back to focus. I prefer large hide and guide maps. DM-DarkCity was hated by many but I loved that map. It seemed so huge the first 10 times I played it I actually thought it was too big and many begged me to remove it. I kept it because it was my server and I liked it. All of that said, I'm still a great run and gun player too and yes that stands true to this day usually. I hope to get to see you on the servers soon. Later!

[bumMmonkeY]

now i remember where i saw you hermskii....MHM when i used to play about 6 months ago.
I can say you guys are doin alright tho. cuz i had no idea the 3 were linked at all ie. CG MHM And MRS. its funny because i have been a regular at all 3 before settling in with MRS and really havent bothered with any other servers.
I started at sniper, but put simply, i suck soooo bad at snipering in ut. i just never understood the concept at all and realised my skills wernt developing at all so i dropped that idea...and at that stage i didnt even know what a redeemer was...sad, but ive never actually had a real go at the ut game itself..like meat...bots "Expletive Deleted" me to tears,

So, by flogging a dead horse you mean someone has already brought this topic up before?
why wasnt anything done? like lynching spawn killers or at least ridiculing them untill they realise how lame they really are?
I dont know...is there any point to continuing the arguement...is there ANYTHING at all that can be done? better still, is there anyone that wants to change the format as it stands? like something such as spawn protection? like 3-5 secs worth? id like to give that a go.

and difinately a poll. id do it but i got no idea how. so thats someone elses thing.

cheers
bumMmonkey

[a nameless entity]

Ah okay, so this is a philisophical discussion, is it? Well, it's still up to you to show these guys the error of their ways.

We tried spawn protection at CG once upon a time. It was found that it didn't work out as intended. If I recall correctly, it also prevented the spawner from firing his weapon during the protected time period, and we didn't like that.

When the translocator was first proposed as an alternate weapon to the redeemer, I was opposed to the idea. Later I recanted, after I got better at using it. But it did change the game a lot.

Remember that variation Schawantz had on his server? The translocator wouldn't work with it. You would start the game with 10 or 20 redeemers, and have to go pick up ammo packs to keep firing. It forced campers out of their spots in a unique way.

[bumMmonkeY]

why SHOULD you be able to shoot your deemer while in spawn protection? hardly sounds fair?

[Hermskii]

Yes, it is a never ending argument about spawn shooters. There is not a right answer or opinion. All I can say is that until you have walked in the shoes of the original deemer mod players for several years using a non translocator version of the mod, you simply can't understand why we'd say it's fair and skillful. Like I said about first love syndrome; many of us learned one way and only played that way for many years before I finally put on a translocator and stuck to my guns about it.

On small original maps you practically could not help it to kill a spawner if you shot 1 deemer anywhere. There really is great skill set that is required to be able to play that way especially if you are in a small map with even only one good original player. The final score in a 6 man game would be something like:

30
27
12
5
-6
-12

And the players who scored 12 and 5 would be about as good as a good player now a days. If Hook builds it, I will come. I will go up against anyone in the original maps with the original mod. Even with my lack of playing for the last 3 years or so I'd own everyone most of the time even many of the old regulars. Yes, I used to be very very good at playing within this mod..

[bumMmonkeY]

yeah id definately have a crack at this original mod you talk of.
i love ALL things deemer.
in fact, i really dont like any other guns in ut99...maybe except the cum cannon ..the ooz gun or whatever ya call it. biosludge i think. lol

but more importantly id LOOOOVE to have a go at the other mods you were talkin bout. especially the firework warheads and the 20 deemer amo pickups. recon that would make the game challenging...except did you find ppl just used the pickups like spawn points..sat and gaurded em? i can see ppl doing that in replacement for spawn killing.
i mean picture somewhere you can kill spawners AND ppl getting pickups.
Recon someone should go one further and mod a deemer to shoot rockets AND warheads except warheads are harder to come by.
OR.....a deemer that shoots rainbows and butterflies...and maybe faries??
nowait...they did that on ut2004!!!

what am i saying?? the game is good as it is...just for the love of god need to review what maps are on the server. there are only a few (3 or4) that need to be thrown away for a lil while..lets face it, any one new that wants to join the server would like to at least have a few seconds to see what its all about before leaving saying to themselves "wtf was that all about?" ( good to see so many new players recently too. ive noticed we have had large capacities lately.)

i know its an opinion....or......request that falls on deaf ears everytime but why cant servers make rules without mods on deemer servers and kick those who dont adhere?
Which of course would be up to MEAT and his views on spawn killers.
I dont know...maybe im to harsh on ppl, but...there have been 4 or 5 (non regular) players on MRS i woulda booted given half the chance.
Hypo Autotaunters are first on the list.



Im aware that players are VERY important to a server admin and kicking isnt the best way to draw numbers, but what about the game??
there are days where i just go "ugh! im gunna go watch a piece of dogturD turn white cuz its more entertaining!"
"are you sure you wanna quit?" "Wheres the HELL YES button?!?!?"

other times i try this method of turning that spawn killers undeserved godlike status into soup. (generally the dogturD wins tho)


so i take it the original is JUST spawn killing tho?
very small maps.....quick frags?
as i said id give it a crack but if its spending 2 mins trying to get way from spawn killers and without a xloc? i dont think id be at home.

hmmmm, a map without a xloc would limit ALOT of otherwise hidden spots....i take great pride in my xloc skills, dunno if i could handle that either.. but im open minded. Hook...get workin on that server!!!


{MRS} veGETabLes

[Hook]

Working on it ...
Just how do we want it set up?
Hermskii? - ...