Maps that suck

[a nameless entity]

There, I said it baldly. This thread is about maps that totally suck. I suggest that we name candidates for removal from CG and MRS in this thread. The pros and cons of said map can then be discussed, and a consensus reached. The owner of the server can then decide on the map's fate.

Here are two I played on CG today and hated:

DM Sniper's Heaven note the apostrophe in the name. It comes up first in the list of the two that are similarly named.
This map is weird, and appears to have been a mere exercise in map making. There is a room inside one of the large buildings that sits close to a least two spawn points. One just has to stand in this room and guide rockets a short distance out the door and explode them to rack up kills fast. There doesn't seem to be a way to dig the person out of this room, at least not easily.
There's a spot outside that's similar. What then happens is that the map becomes a mere race to see who gets the most spawn kills in the shortest time. Boring! I strongly suggest this map be removed.

DM Mirror Mirror Man, this map is even worse. There are only 2 or 3 areas to spawn in, and whoever gets to the fishing hole first controls the spawn kills for that little area. Talk about suckage! Again, it's just a race to see who gets to spawn kill the most often in a given amount of time. This evil little map must go.

Opinions?

[Hermskii]

I say cool. I have already removed them. Funny, while I was there I saw my old setup which hasn't changed in years for CG. Man, I did stuff the hard way back then. I will have to visit CG again soon and clean her up a little.

Keep up the work Nameless and any others.

[MEAT]

DM Mirror Mirror Man, this map is even worse. There are only 2 or 3 areas to spawn in, and whoever gets to the fishing hole first controls the spawn kills for that little area. Talk about suckage! Again, it's just a race to see who gets to spawn kill the most often in a given amount of time.
DM Sniper's Heaven becomes a mere race to see who gets the most spawn kills in the shortest time. Boring!
Opinions?

Oh no Hermskii I have to touch this one:


Spawn Killing...WHAT?
6 years ago when I started playing at CG I use to argue this point ALL the time.
I was chastised and ridiculed and NOW someone finally agrees with ME?
I know I know....I'm "Beating a Dead Horse"...shoot me.
But people use to praise and idolize spawn killers...your "better players"...lol
Because for the most part that's all you could do...spawn kill...hello...!!!
But again, we have small generic maps designed for small caliber weapons.
You add a redeemer to the mix and you're going to have bitching...lol
Hence: you now have MRS with maps to big...lol

Anyway, speaking of strange maps... this is probably the smallest UT map out there.
DM-Anda-DarMonkey.
I think Hermskii added this map as a joke...lol
Imagine playing redeemer in an enclosed basketball court.
You spawn and fire...spawn and fire...spawn and fire...repeat.
This map was designed for knife fighting or wrestling not redeemers.
This map gets my vote.

As for DM-MirrorMirror I agree, it is a small, slightly confusing spray and spawn kill type map.
DM-Sniper's_Heaven was named wrong...however you can get beyond the lava which makes for sniping.
The small "Loop of Poop" room....take away the bots and all you have is some guy blowing up air.
Funny to watch...you see that on a few maps...no skill and funny.
My "Loop of Poop" spray type map would be DM-Crap. But again, it's a map that if played
without bots it isn't so bad. Especially when MRS has spawn protection.

[Flatus]

Makes one think... are some of these mappers trying to get on the top 10 worst UT maps of all time list?

[a nameless entity]

Actually, there was a map that even the old hands didn't like because once someone got behind a certain box, he could not be gotten out of there, and was in a position to rack up spawn kills so fast it spoiled game play.

And as I keep saying again and again, I for the most part always agreed with you.
However there is an argument to be made in favour of the run and gun spray maps. Of the ones that work properly, those make for a completely different and much faster game than what you experience at MRS. All just a matter of taste, really.
When I used to go and find maps and review them for possible inclusion at CG, the prevailing opinions then in favour of run and gun maps caused me to hold back certain large maps for a long time. And the really huge sniper maps that get run at MRS were then totally out of the question.

As it stands now, between MRS and CG we have a nice cross section of the two predominant styles of play available for redeemers. I suggest we leave it that way.

Oh, and btw, I saw an awful sniper map over at MRS the other day. It was one of those dark city maps. There didn't seem to be any way to get inside any of the buildings if I recall correctly, and the layout of buildings was uninspired. There was also a stairway down to a water filled tunnel with a glass roof. I explored the entire length of that tunnel and did not find any other way out. There should have been at least one other exit. Once I rediscover which map it was, I will post here with the suggestion that it be removed. You have much better examples of that genre already on your server.

[MEAT]

Actually, there was a map that even the old hands didn't like because once someone got behind a certain box, he could not be gotten out of there, and was in a position to rack up spawn kills so fast it spoiled game play.

I never saw the fun or challenge in those maps...but your 'better players" did.

And as I keep saying again and again, I for the most part always agreed with you.

What...someone agrees with me?
Oh..."for the most part"...got it...lol

Oh, and btw, I saw an awful sniper map over at MRS the other day. It was one of those dark city maps. There didn't seem to be any way to get inside any of the buildings if I recall correctly, and the layout of buildings was uninspired. There was also a stairway down to a water filled tunnel with a glass roof. I explored the entire length of that tunnel and did not find any other way out. There should have been at least one other exit.

DM-BlackCheetahCity
I had hopes for this map at one time.
But you're right, you can't into the buildings or even on top.
And the water tunnel is a one way trip to nothing.
This map could be so much more...maybe I'll contact the
maker and see what he thinks.

[Hermskii]

I removed DM-DeemerBox after I noticed it was crashing my video card and everyone who played was crashing too. Talk to me K.

Take another look and let me know what is wrong with that map if you still have a copy. One time it locked up while I was looking over the picture in the middle on the floor. It locked like I was stuck looking at a BSP. All jittery and duplicates frozen.

[K]

Send me a copy of the map cause i dont have any copies.
I will remake the map without the errors whatever they are.
So srryy about that. it was my first map.

[a nameless entity]

Unless it is popular with the players over at MRS, I think DM-Killy(Summer Fresh Warehouse) can be given the boot too. It is just sooo unfinished looking. There are better examples of the kind of game play this map tries to propose out there. Free up some hard drive space for something better.

[MEAT]

After further thought I think any and all maps are worthy of being played.
But it's up to us, as server admins, to setup the maps accordingly.

For example:

Limit bots when maps are small.
...it discourages spawn and bot kills.
(want to kill bots go offline)
...it encourages getting better.
...only true players want to play against real players
and only newbies want to play against bots.
Limit players when maps are small.
...why crowd a map that encourages spraying?
...why play a map not designed for crowds?
...again, real players want to kill real players.
(want to kill bots go offline)
Add spawn protection.
(especially when running smaller maps).
...it deters spawn killing.
...it gives an entry and playablity to new players.
If you have bots make them more aggressive.
...it put bots on the offensive.
it give bots a fighting chance...lol
(want to kill bots go offline)
...more realistic.

And there are probably many more ideas out there that
will make our servers better.
Which in turn will make our players better.
So if anyone can add to this subject please do....

[a nameless entity]

Part of the 'mystique' of redeemer arena is the renowned "loop of poop". Spawn protection removes that aspect of the game, which is so maddening and funny at the same time.
(Some visitor to CG started to mouth off about being spawn killed the other night, and called us all 'gay' for it. lmao. )

Of course on the other hand, I've found that spawn protection is a great way to rocket jump and escape an incoming volley, and/or to get up to a high place over at Killer Klownz's server.

Bots need to be balanced between being overly aggressive, which just causes them to kill themselves whenever they see anything move, and being too docile, which only makes them good for target practice with the translocator. It seems that their behavior varies a bit from map to map however, so getting just the right setting can be tricky.

[MEAT]

"loop of poop"...called us all 'gay' )

Correctly named and used by those.
Unless you're playing a 2 min map...then spawn kill away.

It seems that their behavior varies a bit from map to map however, so getting just the right setting can be tricky.

Not so when using the bodenX mod.

[Hermskii]

I think people like the loop of poop on CG. I have to keep having my kids shut down CG each day when I go to work so that my server doesn't burn up even worse from all the players on it all the time. If it weren't for my kids shutting it down daily I'm sure I'd be getting billed extra from my internet service provider for all of the extra bandwidth all these players are using. Hehehe. Funny that CG is called Sanctuary lately yet it provides NO PROTECTION of any sort for anyone at any time unlike other Redeemer mod servers I know. It sorta sounds like those players need protection maybe because they aren't fast enough or just can't think fast enough to figure out how to get out of the way and not die and for that matter to then actually win the game. CG and Sanctuary now seems like a oxymoron doesn't it?

The game is called Unreal however and I'm sure actual fighting soldiers in our armed forces today and in our entire past all consider spawn protection to be Unreal. Pwnage! Wow, and I'm not even drinking tonight.

[MEAT]

The game is called Unreal however and I'm sure actual fighting soldiers in our armed forces today and in our entire past all consider spawn protection to be Unreal. Pwnage! Wow, and I'm not even drinking tonight.

The difference is our soldiers are not spawn into a battle field of bot spraying killers.
If anything they run strategic operations and are skilled in the art of killing.
That's two of the reasons why Real and Unreal are different and is also why some Unreal
games are won on luck...
Where as I do my best to run games that are won on skill and strategic movement.
However I do offer a few maps for the novice...
Burp...

[Killer Klownz]

It sorta sounds like those players need protection maybe because they aren't fast enough or just can't think fast enough to figure out how to get out of the way and not die . .

Klownz hasn't laughed that hard in a while . . .