Spawn Protect vs Spawn Kill

[Killer Klownz]

Why is it a player who is strong where spawn killing is allowed suddenly becomes an "average to weak" player on servers with spawn protection?

[Fuzz_Ball]

I fully understand and appreciate your point, Mr. Klownz.
While the answer may be obvious, consider also that RVH has many different maps than CG's.

This is a good thing too.

I like the short spawn protection period to avoid the exact thing that makes many spawn campers look better than they actually are. I hate getting caught in the loop of poop. All I can think of is that someone is profiting without effort at my misfortune. I say keep the spawn protection. It's a great equalizer.

This brings to mind another question: Why do many stand-n-spray players call the bigger maps "hide & guide" maps? Don't they know that hiding & guiding ultimately leads to their own demise?

One thing I look for is the source of these meandering, squirrelly missiles and put an end to those shennanigans as soon as possible.

[MEAT]

Why is it a player who is strong where spawn killing is allowed suddenly becomes an "average to weak" player on servers with spawn protection?

They call them old skool players...lol
Back in the day that's all they did and they thought their chit didn't stink.
Well it does stink if you play at RVH or MRS. It takes skillz to be good my friend not spawn killing.

[Hermskii]

Woodstock 1 and 2.

That is what I think of when I hear discussions like this one. It is like me and 30 friends all went to Woodstock 1 and then some 20 years later another group of 30 friends all went to Woodstock 2 and want to compare them and insist that all they know about Woodstock 2 must be better than what I know of Woodstock 1.

You just had to be there back then to understand why it was so enjoyable. No matter how hard you try there will never be another Woodstock. Now in the UT world I can give you a chance to relive this phenomena. Here is how:

Build a server with nothing but stock UT on it. Now patch it to 436. Then add the original redeemer only mod. Now start the server at stock speed with no other mods. Have it only cycle the map DM-Deck16][ for 6 months. Now play it every day for 1-3 hours each day against against any 10 of the same 30 players who come by to play. So this for the full 6 months. Then come back here and tell me how you did and tell me why you think there is no skill involved. Then add all of the rest of the default UT maps that come on the CD only. Play like that for another year like that. Then finally, add several variants of Deck maps and keep playing each day for hours for about another year. Then come back here again and tell me about it. Until then, you've only been to Woodstock 2 and you just simply can't and won't ever understand. Thank you! Hermskii has left the building.

[Killer Klownz]

you just simply can't and won't ever understand. Thank you! Hermskii has left the building.

You can continue to champion spawn killing but Klownz does not believe it's fair to the new/newer players. You'll lose more players with spawn killing than you ever will by simply beating them like a cheap rug. New players can't be cultivated when they have no chance against more experienced players that simply spray at spawn points. They'll become frustrated and leave, never to look back and give it another chance. It isn't just RVH or MRS that doesn't allow spawn killing. A lot of servers, dare we say a majority, do not allow it. Klownz has visited many servers and you'd be surprised at how much of a punk they think you are if you spawn kill. Spawn killing proves nothing other than you know where the spawn points are . . . .

[Fuzz_Ball]

Back when I was young, we had to get up a half an hour before bedtime,
Eat a lump of freezing cold poison
Work 28 hours a day and when we came home,
Our dad would murder us in cold blood and dance about on our grave singing hallelujah!

So a 3 second delay in spawn killing is not the old SRA or GC way but Klownz point is valid.
While the spawn kill is one strategy to the game, it is not the only one.
Klownz, IMO, is saying that there are players whose success relies solely on the spawn kill.

I'm all for the protection. Some sites will penalize you (with death) for shooting at spawners, but just enough time to get out of the loop-of-poop is sufficient. Points scored from Loop-of-Poop kills to me, are unearned. No strategy bt point at the spawners.

I'll play either way, even HOOK's is a great change of pace. Give me an honest battle of wits where stalking, evading and outsmarting your opponent wins.

[MEAT]

Spawn killing proves nothing other than you know where the spawn points are . . . .

Amen my brother.

[Hook]

I'm all for the protection. Some sites will penalize you (with death) for shooting at spawners, but just enough time to get out of the loop-of-poop is sufficient. Points scored from Loop-of-Poop kills to me, are unearned. No strategy bt point at the spawners.

I'll play either way, even HOOK's is a great change of pace. Give me an honest battle of wits where stalking, evading and outsmarting your opponent wins.

even HOOK's is a great change of pace.
("even" Hook's???)
Thanks Fuzz_Ball!
One thing that I have noticed is that this is kind of a Mute Point!
The Loop-Of-Poop hasn't even occurred much at all "even" on my CMM server.
We don't have spawn protection running on CMM.
It just hasn't even been an issue at all there that I can see.
Nobody even tries it and most of the time it can't be done very well because most maps have quite a few spawn points so you don't re-spawn in the same spot that much anyway.
It is just another possible way of getting into a trap set by, and due to the Strategy of other players and has been part of True Redeemer Arena since the get-go!
Most of the time a player camping at a spawn-point gets blown to powder by some other player or more likely - by a BOT!
I myself am not a real supporter of spawn killing but neither am I an opponent.
I am neutral in most angles on this except the part about tradition in redeemer arena of allowing the loop!
Tradition is what I go with in this case on my server.
This is good though that the 4 redeemer servers here are all different so we can have a change of pace playing any and all of them.

In conclusion - this is really a mute point as the loop just does Not Happen anymore!!! or rarely anyway...
Any server that has a Spawn Protection on it is put there because the players are wussies, or the admin is, or more likely Both are!!! PERIOD!!!
Spawn protection is there to protect players that cannot figure out how to get out of the loop (lesser skilled IMO) and NEED protection so they can go hide somewhere before they get their butts blown away!
But again - the loop is VERY RARE now so that is a lame excuse to use spawn protection!
If you are a newbie at Redeemer Arena, say so and get some help and practice, then you will not have to RELY on spawn protection to save your butt!!!

[MEAT]

I myself am not a real supporter of spawn killing but neither am I an opponent.
I am neutral in most angles on this except the part about tradition in redeemer arena of allowing the loop!
Tradition is what I go with in this case on my server.

Spawn killing is a by-product of playing to small of a map with to big of a weapon.
Anyone that supports or has to rely on spawn killing to win is not a true redeemer player.
And I wouldn't go so far as to call "loop of poop" a Tradition.
Besides CG it surely doesn't exist on any other server.

[Hermskii]

Agree mostly. The loop of poop happens when you play on a small map with many good players at the same time. Then, the game can finish in less than 30 seconds and you have not scored a single frag. Yes, it makes most people go away and not return but then there are those special foks who keep coming back for more no matter what who finally start to figure out what to do. I think MEAT himself may have been one of those folks.

[MEAT]

Agree mostly. The loop of poop happens when you play on a small map with many good players at the same time. Then, the game can finish in less than 30 seconds and you have not scored a single frag. Yes, it makes most people go away and not return but then there are those special foks who keep coming back for more no matter what who finally start to figure out what to do. I think MEAT himself may have been one of those folks.

Loop of Poop...named correctly because that's what it is.
I was a "pooper" and I still have some in me...that didn't come out right.
ehh...and that didn't sound right either.
Anyway, back then that's all we did...spray at spawners.
But either way at one point you have to ask yourself...is spawn killing fun?
For me I just got tired of it...the feeling of playing against real people wasn't there.
And it had to be the same for all the others...because that's all we did...spray at spawners.
At some point this game has to get better. And it did but only when we played larger maps.
With larger maps you had to think a little...now there was a challenge. Now there was a name with a face.
And most people couldn't play the larger maps because it exposed their weaknesses...thinking.
Plus they couldn't spray...lol