WTC map

[Iosa Sakera]

Honestly, pretty much any super powerful weaponry would make the map much more enjoyable IMO. There are currently a couple of particularly annoying areas near the start of the map, not to mention the godforsaken superskaarj make things much worse than they need to be.

[BIOMECH]

Indeed, playable FTW

[Reiyel_3.0]

I don´t agree with the idea of super powerful weaponry. I would say let´s put an insta instead. Like many of you may know, I personally dislike most of custom weps. I find many of them useless and sometimes the only thing I get by using them is lag. The only custom wep I kind of like is Hellfire Flak.

However, like Gopo has clearly stated, insta could actually ruin the map by becoming it a race to the end. Considering this, I would like to ask; what is the real problem? Is that monsters have a lot of health or that the damage they inflict is exagerated?

Clearly, we have both problems; but I personally believe that the main problem is the damage these monsters inflict. It would be a playable map even if monsters keep their HP but inflicting less damage. How it is know becomes annoying sometimes because it takes a lot of time and hits to kill the monsters and they also can instantly kill you (in a reduced space in which you can´t even try to escape). So, if the main problem is the damage they inflict, the solution should be focused on that. Both insta and more powerful weps are solutions for excessive health.

However, editing monsters damage is a big and hard job and I think we have no urgency at all. Fixing the lifts is also a really hard job. So I vote for only adding a HellfireFlak and some Udamages.

Yes I know, a big speech only for saying add some custom flaks and amps.

[*POTS*]

What about removing half of the monsters in the map? As far as I know there are no Creature Factories in that map, so it should be doable, and you won't need to add any superweapons.

[-HellFire-]

Just add a HellFire flak (or) Insta and I'm happy.
It would make the map playable and fun.

About the ''racing'', we can discuss in-game to play in a team (if) everybody agree's.
Maybe I'm not the best person to say this about ''team-work'' but lets ignore that.

[gopostal]

I have the best idea...Lets try both suggestions. I'll reduce the congestion of monsters where they knot up and you can't escape (like at the lift exit) and post that map. I'll also add an insta to another and post that one too.
Say wtc-105(a) is less monsters and some safe zones
wtc-105(b) is the stock map with insta

If this is good, I'll have it done up in the next couple of days and on the testserver. The lifts I'll mess with later. Those may need to be redone.

[BIOMECH]

*Cow Envy*

Cow envy is differant from regular envy in that I am merely envious of another's abilities, but am too busy eating grass to do anything about it.

[gopostal]

OK both maps are posted and voteable. WTC (A) is a monster health reduced map with safe areas to retreat to. WTC (B) is the stock map with insta added at the spawn. I'm curious which you guys think is better.

[Scify]

Map A better but warlords atop first tower one come throught door 4 or 6 warlord Health was 14,000 may be cut down maybe to 10,000 or 7,000 and second tower top level Behemoth heath was 10,000 cut down some.
Titains out side was had 20,000 maybe cut down to 15,000 or 10,000.
Redeemer was missing
Map B with insta no help at all.

[BIOMECH]

Well, we were playing both of them with Bpak, that may have tampered with the results just a teensy bit

[gopostal]

On (A) I generally left the Big Boys alone. It was the smash of 500 health krall that made the map so tough. Even though the bigger monsters are hard, you have areas to retreat to and recover now.

Really try the maps with normal stuff. I'm honestly curious.

[a nameless entity]

Some while back there was a lot of talk about needing maps that would force everyone to actually play as a team. It is quite possible that WTC was originally designed to fill that need. There were maps made that needed a lot of players, and that they work together to finish it. Long Corridor 2006 was made with that in mind, as well as improving the look of the map, and giving the players something else to work for besides just surviviing to the end. Has WTC gone too far in that direction? Or do you just need a large group that actually waits for fragged team mates to catch back up to the spot where the main group is currently working? (Especially necessary at the base of each elevator shaft imho.)

In any event, please do not remove the fountain and pool in the centre of the courtyard. Nameless still likes to get his jollies by jumping into the pool from the top of the buildings.

[gopostal]

The map is actually well done. The main problem with it are sections where you just can't not die. For instance in bldg 1 the elevators open to a room of behemoths less than a player width away from you. There's no way to deal with that but throw lives at it until you get some clearance to move. EVERY map should have retreat points where you can (reasonably) expect to be safe for a moment to refill. Forcing you into a buzzsaw is poor design.

[Hermskii]

Both of you have great points and I can see this will continue to come together. Keep it up. Nameless always has such a great insight when it comes to stuff like this and gopo just always has another view of things I never see until he points them out and then I feel like smacking my forehead and thinking I could have had a V8 while saying wow, I never realized that before.

[BIOMECH]

When we went up the elevator into the roomfull of skaarj who shot rockets and had thousands of HP, it was indeed a life throwing excersise.

The elevator would fill with squads of 6-8 players, and there would be a grim, tense atmosphere as the shaft fired upwards. Then we would reach the top, and the whole team would charge out into the enemy, and it was just madness. The entire team would be wiped out in about 10 seconds. So we just kept launching assaults at them until we'd all died 15 times and we had a beachead.