The comeback

[bumMmonkeY]

Im pulling the 'ol deemer out of retirement....its been sooo long..... i will see you all soon!

[Hermskii]

Do you only play at MEAT's or other well known Deemer sites as well? Welcome back. Post often with pazzaz!

[Hook]

Hey - Welcome back to the FUN!
Oh, your 'Ol Deemer just may need to be upgraded a bit. (hint hint)

[MEAT]

There is nothing better then monkeY blood on my boots.

[bumMmonkeY]

Thanks guys, Herm i have played all other redeemer servers at some stage....started a CG's back in the day what seemed like 100 years ago..(cant remember what my alias was back then tho)till MEAT came along one day and showed me i wasnt as good as i thought i was..and theres no merit in spawn killin...lol..im gunna' try to spend a lil more time over at Hook's...Just 'cuz hes such a friendly lil bugger lol

[Hook]

friendly lil bugger?
I'll be gone tonight (Friday night) so play at CG and MRS tonight - but I should be back for some games Saturday night and I'll be on CLD (CROSSBONES Lucifurs Den) and hopefully move around a bit to both CG and MRS too.

[Hermskii]

Wrong Monkey. Spawn killing is totally fair and a requirement at CG. CG was almost first and certainly the longest run Redeemer Mod Server. This is the way it was when CG took over. I understand that players can prefer other Redeemer Arena Mod game-play concepts but to call CG wrong is exactly that. Wrong. Call MRS different or more modern... that is all fine. In the end though, back when tons of players played at CG and the spawn kill was part of the game if you weren't pure LEET you didn't stand a chance.

MEAT rarely if ever won a game there which was his motivation to change the rules and start his own server. That was/is fine with me. Hell, I helped him do what he did but never forget that it basically started at Schwantz's Redeemer Arena and then CG took the torch. CG never handed over the torch. It is what it is. It is like religion getting all split up into different religions based on what feels good to the person but Catholicism was there right after Judaism. Everything else after that was just split offs of the same concept with new rules to make it easier on the person/player. I bet this opens a can of worms!

Even CG differed from the original Deemer server in that CG soon incorporated translocators after breaking away. See what I mean? Schwantz's never had or would have had a translocator. MEAT and the others took my recipe and modified it to meet their taste and offered it to the world. That isn't wrong but don't tell me that my way is wrong when 90% of what you play now is a direct copy of my work just as mine was a copy of Schwantz's. At least I can freely and openly admit it! I have never denied it in fact. Give CG credit. It is the longest running Redeemer Mod server on the PLANET that I know of and spawned more Redeemer Mod servers than any other still active Redeemer Mod server in the world EVER! Everything I just said is just a fact and not a pat on my own back. This was my goal. I succeeded! The end.

[BIOMECH]

My eyes!

Use more paragraphs

[Hermskii]

I edited it for your eyes. There are now a few paragraphs and some typo fixes as well. I'm very pleased with that last post being I was hammered (drunk-buzzed) when I typed it but it is a real beuty and I should have said what it says a long-long time ago. I'm shocked IO never got this particular point out and across before. It really brings the point across well and so long as CG runs, it will be the standard that all other Redeemer Mod Servers will continue to emulate. The end.

[MEAT]

I wonder if I should comment/correct half the statements Hermskii posted?

[bumMmonkeY]

wow, herm, settle down i never said it was wrong....
CG is still valid which is its testament to being a good server. It HAD to have some merit for me to stick around so loong there. What i was saying MEAT came to CG back then and started beating me uncontrollable which was something that NEVER happened, i dominated EVERY spawn point and use to get rediculous monster kills! I asked him to show me how he does it...cuz at that stage NOONE was running and gunning at all..you were either spawn killed, or you were spawn killing....in order to learn a different technique, we had to go to ALAM FORNA on his server because there simply isnt the floorspace on CG maps to be able to learn the techniques to actually counteract someone trying to spawn kill you (he never quite taught me how to cheat like him tho ). I guess to a degree, spawn killing still occurs at MRS, but because its so vast and open there are things you can do to reduce your chances of getting caught in the loop. CG's being such a small environment, there really arnt any opportunities to do this and the majority of the time winning comes down to chance and ones fortune to make it to one of the numerous positions that allow you to spawn kill faster than anyone else.

CG's format worked out for me for a number of years, But, i supose MRS was ultimately just my cup 'o' tea.

Ive never looked back at CG and thought anything but fond memories of it... and even go back from time to time and especially recongnise it to be one of the founding deemer servers....so by all means, give yourself a pat on the back. Im just happy ive been able to evolve with the game.

[Hermskii]

You are right bumMmonkeY. You never said that the way people played on CG was wrong. Here is part of the line that likely set me off:

till MEAT came along one day and showed me i wasnt as good as i thought i was..and theres no merit in spawn killin...lol..

The discussion has long raged that spawn killing required no skill. SRA and CG both allowed, suggested, recommended and condoned this skill set because that was how the game was played and it was widely recognized amongst the then die-hard group of players.

I can still say easily that if you were in the games back then and played against the greats as I did for years you would know beyond any doubt that to to or even compete at any level this style of game-play was required. There is no ifs and or butts about it. The maps back then were all default UT maps or variances of them. The server load was full constantly. If you couldn't hang, you lost or left. The end.

So I apologize if I came off defensive or aggressive. That part of that quote above could be taken several different ways and as always I invite any (MEAT) differing views or for people to correct me or my statements. Sorry again to you bumMmonkeY.

[bumMmonkeY]

thats cool herm....alot of ppl spank the monkey.

I was indeed around for the old school deemer days..and participated quite heavily. , i was constantly questioning "Surely there has to be more to this massive gun then killing ppl before they can actually get their bearings?"
I dunno, I really hate this debate, I feel kinda strongly these days that spawn killing is about as skillfull as fishing with TNT. But alot of the dinosaurs that never made it over to the MRS revolution still are adament that spawn killing is the only way to go.
I guess id like to think that there is more skilll in run and gun....making the objectives more tactical. There simply isnt any thought process going into small map spawn killing because none of the actions are variable. By that i mean, choose 2 or 3 targets on walls/ceilings around spawn points and toggle between them as soon as the blast radius disapates. So autonomous...im sure there could even ba a plugin program to take over the players position and deploy a macro to win the map for them thus negating any possible reason to play the game in the first place.

NEEEIGH......THUMP!

[Hermskii]

There! Now you said something wrong. Here it is:

But a lot of the dinosaurs that never made it over to the MRS revolution still are adament that spawn killing is the only way to go.

This was wrong on 2 levels:

1. Never start a sentence with a conjunction. LOL
2. I and the others NEVER said it was the only way to go.


I completely understand the argument against run and gun and spray and pray and all of that. I totally get it. I need to find that thread I did a long time mentioning everything that I have already done on CG as far as mods and changes go.

Behold: I was the first player to add the translocator to the Redeemer Mod. Goal was to let people get away fast when spawning and to get into otherwise impossible hiding spots. You can't run and gun in a perfect hiding spot. I was the first to add really big maps. Recall the whole argument against DarkCity and it being played too much?

I was also the first to run with spawn protection. Yes, CG had it but the masses hated it. I did what the people wanted basically and thus CG stayed the same as it is now. Other server admins (MEAT & Hook currently) stuck with their convictions and made the full move to huge maps, spawn protection, translocators, faster game speed, modified Deemers etc etc. There is nothing wrong with that and I support their efforts and always have. I have simply demanded to have it recognized that it wasn't like that in the beginning. MEAT hands down was the single largest contributor to the new game-play style and has argued it the most. That is fine by me. I'm not calling one style better than the other. Records indicate that while CG was widely successful for 5 years or so that most players like you prefer the newer game-play style thus are more popular than CG. See! I can admit that CG isn't what it used to be especially compared to the newer servers but I have never argued that. I just want all to recall what was first and what is a derivative of what was first. We all came from SRA and there was even another server before SRA that was a Deemer Server. It ran 1 map over and over. All hail Deck 16][.

[MEAT]

Yeah really...calm down Hermskii...relax...catch your breath...
Okay here's my two cents worth and believe me it's only worth about a cent.
Spawn killing is one of the most talked about and "hated" forms of play UT wide.
Most servers and forums despise and prohibit spawn killing. There are mods out there
designed to stop spawn killing and warn you against spawn killing.
And I doubt the makers of UT designed the game to see who could spawn kill the fastest.
But to say spawn killing is a "technique"...well I guess that is valid for some.
In fact at one point when I played CG I use to spawn kill most of the time.
I had no choice...at the time CG was full of small maps and crowds.
You had to spawn kill to win. And if there wasn't a crowd it was the player killing
the most bots that won.
But to me this wasn't the way the game should be played.
Here I was with a guided missile in my hand and all I'm doing is shooting at spots on a map.
Fun?
Perhaps for some but I just didn't get it.
But again that's what you get with an overly large weapon in a small map....spraying.
And it was the player that learned the most spawn points that usually won.
Skill?
No...more like memorization.
Remembering where every spawn point was on every map. Sure it took me a while to
learn and yes I lost a lot in the beginning but eventually I got it and at one point I ruled at CG.
And bumMonkey I did have some of the "dinosaurs" come over to MRS...but they couldn't hang.
They were so use to small maps and being one-dimensional spawn killings they just gave up.
Sad but true.
Anyway, I could go on and on but "some people just don't get it".