I just played and won on a map where I saw 3 decent players (regulars) hide behind
walls and all they did was constantly fire around the wall and blow up there
redeemers in the open in hopes of hitting someone (spawners).
Now don't get me wrong, I understand the technique and I know it works but can someone
with any intelligence tell me where the fun is or where the challenge is in doing this?
I know I know...in some maps you have no choice but you might
as well be playing against bots if all you're going to do is spray and pray.
Skill is going to win over luck everytime.
Maybe the maps are to small?
Spray and Pray?
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a nameless entity
- Posts: 1882
- Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:04 pm
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LePoLoo
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:45 am
LOL !
You know my position about this... the dead horse is back !
I think the challenge is to win and I know winning is killing more than dying !
So... whatever you do to reach this goal is what has to be tried !.. But I prefer a player who uses the method you describe here knowing exactly where he shoots than a player shooting in any unknown direction !
This game is Hiroshima !
You know my position about this... the dead horse is back !
I think the challenge is to win and I know winning is killing more than dying !
So... whatever you do to reach this goal is what has to be tried !.. But I prefer a player who uses the method you describe here knowing exactly where he shoots than a player shooting in any unknown direction !
This game is Hiroshima !
Too much lag ? go fishing...
}<(((((°> }<(((((°> }<(((((°> }<(((((°> }<(((((°> }<(((((°>
}<(((((°> }<(((((°> }<(((((°> }<(((((°> }<(((((°> }<(((((°>
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The Jargonaut
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:01 pm
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Scify
- Posts: 1003
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:15 am
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MEAT
- Posts: 2525
- Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:17 pm
You're right Scify it does take skill to hide, not be seen and guide your missile.
But I still don't see the challenge or skill in spawn kills?
And that is all I'm seeing now is spawn kills that win on the
smaller maps.
I just lost on a small map that I think only had 3 spawn points.
And each time I spawned I was killed.
I'll say it again, Maybe we need up-to-date maps?
The maps we are playing now are 7 years old.
Maybe that's why no one is playing my server, no one wants
to change?
But I still don't see the challenge or skill in spawn kills?
And that is all I'm seeing now is spawn kills that win on the
smaller maps.
I just lost on a small map that I think only had 3 spawn points.
And each time I spawned I was killed.
I'll say it again, Maybe we need up-to-date maps?
The maps we are playing now are 7 years old.
Maybe that's why no one is playing my server, no one wants
to change?
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Scify
- Posts: 1003
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:15 am
U haven't play the one we had that had two spwan points. I like play new maps.Maps You & me play two or three weekends ago all maps we play I didn't have.MEAT wrote:You're right Scify it does take skill to hide, not be seen and guide your missile.
But I still don't see the challenge or skill in spawn kills?
And that is all I'm seeing now is spawn kills that win on the
smaller maps.
I just lost on a small map that I think only had 3 spawn points.
And each time I spawned I was killed.
I'll say it again, Maybe we need up-to-date maps?
The maps we are playing now are 7 years old.
Maybe that's why no one is playing my server, no one wants
to change?
To I save up some money for new headphone can't play late because I live in apartment .
Herm you have add new maps on your server. I first start you had 30 now you what serverl hunderd 
" If I had a brain, I'd be dangerous!"
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MEAT
- Posts: 2525
- Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:17 pm
I'm still waiting for someone to defend the spray and pray as a skill or talent?
Sure it's a techique used on small maps and there is knowledge in
knowing spawn points in hopes (Luck) of hiting something. And I understand
in smaller/spawn maps you have no choice. But there is no talent needed.
Why is it most people
are afraid of the larger maps where you have to maneuver yourself and
the redeemer?
Do most people play with ther eyes closed?
Just ran into Elvis, or Elvis's son, and he belittled the hide and glide
and left. Are some of you afraid to venture out? Are some of you not
talented enough to hide and glide? Are you to one demensional (sprayer) ?
I want to understand why? Anybody know why?
You might say I'm kicking a dead horse but explain first.....
Sure it's a techique used on small maps and there is knowledge in
knowing spawn points in hopes (Luck) of hiting something. And I understand
in smaller/spawn maps you have no choice. But there is no talent needed.
Why is it most people
are afraid of the larger maps where you have to maneuver yourself and
the redeemer?
Do most people play with ther eyes closed?
Just ran into Elvis, or Elvis's son, and he belittled the hide and glide
and left. Are some of you afraid to venture out? Are some of you not
talented enough to hide and glide? Are you to one demensional (sprayer) ?
I want to understand why? Anybody know why?
You might say I'm kicking a dead horse but explain first.....
Last edited by MEAT on Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Jargonaut
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:01 pm
Sorry. Could not resist
As I have stated before, the challenge is not the actual spraying part. The challenge (for me anyways) is taking away the position from someone else and defending that position. It requires cracker jack timing and patience to do this successfully against a player that knows how to defend. If you get killed then you may end up in the L.O.P. (Loop of Poop). So usually, the player that can defend the best wins. It is also a GREAT thrill to kill one of these players that is THIS close to winning, get the position, and end up the winner.
You get the exact same thrill from the big maps. Hunting down and out thinking your opponent. I get it too, but I only have about 30 seconds to do it. Makes it an adrenalin rush.
Still, different strokes for different folks. Right now, since no one (including myself) has been able to challenge and beat you regularly, then you are the top dog at the big maps. I just wished that you were on the east coast so that our times were a little closer together. Playing at 2 AM is tough for me on the weekend. No doubt that you would kick my tail, but still I think that it would be a blast.
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MEAT
- Posts: 2525
- Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:17 pm
Jarg, if I understand you correctly you don't see the challenge in spraying but you get a
adrenalin rush in stopping the sprayer? If that is the case I'm with you 100%
I think the whole part to why I play UT is for the adrenalin rush.
And I can only get that by being tactful and calculating in my plan of action.
Basically doing away with the boredom and regularity of sitting in one spot and spraying.
However, with the smaller/spawn kill maps, which are designed for smaller weapons, spraying is the flavor of the day.
Which is why I like the bigger maps and the thought process involved in playing.
And I think a majority of those that play the smaller maps, especially when they are crowded, are missing out.
That being said, I hope my friend Hermskii will comment on my lack of understanding on the subject?
Thanks Jargonaut.....
adrenalin rush in stopping the sprayer? If that is the case I'm with you 100%
I think the whole part to why I play UT is for the adrenalin rush.
And I can only get that by being tactful and calculating in my plan of action.
Basically doing away with the boredom and regularity of sitting in one spot and spraying.
However, with the smaller/spawn kill maps, which are designed for smaller weapons, spraying is the flavor of the day.
Which is why I like the bigger maps and the thought process involved in playing.
And I think a majority of those that play the smaller maps, especially when they are crowded, are missing out.
That being said, I hope my friend Hermskii will comment on my lack of understanding on the subject?
Thanks Jargonaut.....
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Hermskii
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8717
- Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:56 pm
To each...
To each their own. I think the greatest skill is to be a near master of all size maps and master playing against small or large numbers. There is nothing wrong with being specialized like MEAT is with large maps and fewer players. There are players that are just better than others no matter what. Those are the most well rounded players.
I think overall it is just about what you like. Lets consider this: I think that I could call out anyone here either 1 on 1 or 1 on a full house and could own everyone for a full month an any map any time against any regular and against a whole team against me only if needed but note that the final part of that fake challenge would be this; that we play real DeathMatch with all of the weapons. I doubt there would be a single taker because like I said, I'd own everyone hands down even if I gave everyone a 20 point lead.
I could start a thread about it too and howl about how everyone is too scared to challenge me and that the Redeemer Mod play isn't real UT at all as most "REAL" UT players claim. Maybe I should challenge everyone to a StrangeLove Match since that is what I have been focused on for the last 8 months and haven't lost a single game in 7 of those last 8 months. Not one. I could come in and say that I'm unbeatable in Onslaught on UT2K4 or even in Invasion on UT2K3. I could accuse all that don't face me in any of these mediums as being lesser players than I or that they can't win because of the way they play compared to me but I choose to be bigger than that. If you want true UT and ownership of a title in UT then it is my opinion that you must play and master and win against other masters in any form of UT that is played using nothing more than what came with the game and the furthest stretch from this would be to include additional options via the 4 official Epic Bonus Packs. If you can't win using that criteria than you suck. If you have to master an off the plan freak mod like Redeemer Arena to make a claim to fame it is unjustified and nearly as sad as shameful.
Now, I say this. I'm happier knowing knowing that I rate well up there with the best using this off the plan Mod than knowing all of the rest I mentioned above. Am I better than anyone else? Depends. Do I care or rant on about it? No. Do I try to sucker more people onto the server regularly by not playing at my best? Often. Can I be beaten badly? Yes! Can I own people that think they rule? Yes again. Does doing so increase my stock? Not a penny. This is about having fun and it is much more fun to lose and never have it thrown in your face and play more than to lose and have it advertised and then stop playing.
I used to take screen shots of my wins. Hell, I used to get far enough ahead so I'd have time to successfully telefrag the one player who was in second place using a "Near Inpenetratable Hooking Deemer Method" just because I thought it looked cool to finish the game as the winner with a translocator in my hand and guts all over the floor. I'm sure many of you regulars remember those days. The point is I didn't flaunt my skills and if I failed to get to the second place guy enough he would win and that was OK too.
I haven't seen so much calling out of others to see who is the best since young "Jester" was having his way with all of us just a few years back. He was well rounded too. There are too many great players to name and all of them had a preference but we all just enjoyed that fact that eventually our preference map and amount of players would eventually happen and we'd get our moment in the spotlight for 60 seconds while the next map got voted in.
MEAT, I hope you understand that much of this is directed to you but I hope you take it correctly. It isn't a put down. You have mastered your realm in UT. Congrats. It is just unfortunate for you that your realm also happens to be the minority realm within this mod at the moment.
You had mentioned my map cycle in this or another thread earlier stressing that yours was more robust and fitting to all players. That is great work on your part. I have chosen to offer a wide variety as well but years of Serving has dictated that I go with the player preference which I sort of have tried to do. Over all, I think most of my players get tired of seeing the same textures for more than 5 minutes and thus want smaller maps that are easier to point on using any style of play and end quickly. I know I'd rather play 6 ten minute maps than 1 sixty minute map.
All I can say is that I think you'll get it sooner or later and either way I think you're a good player and a giving server admin. You know I know you personally already and I wish everyone did too so they'd see that aside from being obsessed with competition in UT under your preferred environment you also desperately want to have a really great server that other enjoy as much as you. It will happen. Give it time. BUT if you continue to beat the crap out of players and advertise it whether by picture or just keeping score and reporting it you will fail.
So, tell me what you think about how good you are in UT over all and tell us when you will be ready to meet someone or some people on the playing field of regular DeathMatch UT using no mods for the championship ring. See what I mean? I'm sure your willing to practice up and show up. I'm sure you'd still lose very very badly. I'm sure you would not appreciate me displaying the final results for all to see and I'm sure that at some point you'd call it quits before you kept on after a GodLike player for months and never even come close to a win.
In the end I hope to see a "Hey! Someone want to meet me and play some Deemer Mod?" as compared to "Will no one defend the concept that my style of play can overcome spray and pray when the map is large and the players are few?"
I just say....Let's play and have a good time for all.
I think overall it is just about what you like. Lets consider this: I think that I could call out anyone here either 1 on 1 or 1 on a full house and could own everyone for a full month an any map any time against any regular and against a whole team against me only if needed but note that the final part of that fake challenge would be this; that we play real DeathMatch with all of the weapons. I doubt there would be a single taker because like I said, I'd own everyone hands down even if I gave everyone a 20 point lead.
I could start a thread about it too and howl about how everyone is too scared to challenge me and that the Redeemer Mod play isn't real UT at all as most "REAL" UT players claim. Maybe I should challenge everyone to a StrangeLove Match since that is what I have been focused on for the last 8 months and haven't lost a single game in 7 of those last 8 months. Not one. I could come in and say that I'm unbeatable in Onslaught on UT2K4 or even in Invasion on UT2K3. I could accuse all that don't face me in any of these mediums as being lesser players than I or that they can't win because of the way they play compared to me but I choose to be bigger than that. If you want true UT and ownership of a title in UT then it is my opinion that you must play and master and win against other masters in any form of UT that is played using nothing more than what came with the game and the furthest stretch from this would be to include additional options via the 4 official Epic Bonus Packs. If you can't win using that criteria than you suck. If you have to master an off the plan freak mod like Redeemer Arena to make a claim to fame it is unjustified and nearly as sad as shameful.
Now, I say this. I'm happier knowing knowing that I rate well up there with the best using this off the plan Mod than knowing all of the rest I mentioned above. Am I better than anyone else? Depends. Do I care or rant on about it? No. Do I try to sucker more people onto the server regularly by not playing at my best? Often. Can I be beaten badly? Yes! Can I own people that think they rule? Yes again. Does doing so increase my stock? Not a penny. This is about having fun and it is much more fun to lose and never have it thrown in your face and play more than to lose and have it advertised and then stop playing.
I used to take screen shots of my wins. Hell, I used to get far enough ahead so I'd have time to successfully telefrag the one player who was in second place using a "Near Inpenetratable Hooking Deemer Method" just because I thought it looked cool to finish the game as the winner with a translocator in my hand and guts all over the floor. I'm sure many of you regulars remember those days. The point is I didn't flaunt my skills and if I failed to get to the second place guy enough he would win and that was OK too.
I haven't seen so much calling out of others to see who is the best since young "Jester" was having his way with all of us just a few years back. He was well rounded too. There are too many great players to name and all of them had a preference but we all just enjoyed that fact that eventually our preference map and amount of players would eventually happen and we'd get our moment in the spotlight for 60 seconds while the next map got voted in.
MEAT, I hope you understand that much of this is directed to you but I hope you take it correctly. It isn't a put down. You have mastered your realm in UT. Congrats. It is just unfortunate for you that your realm also happens to be the minority realm within this mod at the moment.
You had mentioned my map cycle in this or another thread earlier stressing that yours was more robust and fitting to all players. That is great work on your part. I have chosen to offer a wide variety as well but years of Serving has dictated that I go with the player preference which I sort of have tried to do. Over all, I think most of my players get tired of seeing the same textures for more than 5 minutes and thus want smaller maps that are easier to point on using any style of play and end quickly. I know I'd rather play 6 ten minute maps than 1 sixty minute map.
All I can say is that I think you'll get it sooner or later and either way I think you're a good player and a giving server admin. You know I know you personally already and I wish everyone did too so they'd see that aside from being obsessed with competition in UT under your preferred environment you also desperately want to have a really great server that other enjoy as much as you. It will happen. Give it time. BUT if you continue to beat the crap out of players and advertise it whether by picture or just keeping score and reporting it you will fail.
So, tell me what you think about how good you are in UT over all and tell us when you will be ready to meet someone or some people on the playing field of regular DeathMatch UT using no mods for the championship ring. See what I mean? I'm sure your willing to practice up and show up. I'm sure you'd still lose very very badly. I'm sure you would not appreciate me displaying the final results for all to see and I'm sure that at some point you'd call it quits before you kept on after a GodLike player for months and never even come close to a win.
In the end I hope to see a "Hey! Someone want to meet me and play some Deemer Mod?" as compared to "Will no one defend the concept that my style of play can overcome spray and pray when the map is large and the players are few?"
I just say....Let's play and have a good time for all.
~Peace~
Hermskii
Hermskii
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The Jargonaut
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:01 pm
Oh, and before I forget:
MEAT said:
Now, if someone wants to get to me, they have to use their wits. Also, timing is KEY. If my pattern is too... for lack of a better term, un-random, then they can use that against me to get to me and beat me.
Now if someone else has the point, then a grin almost always crosses my face because I LOVE to try and outsmart them. Mahatma and myself used to get into these kinds of battles a LOT. We would almost ignore the other players to try and get the "cherry" position. If I had it, then I KNEW Mah was going to gun for me. This made it even more intense. You feel that you have to look over your shoulder all of the time. When you least expect it. Beep beep beep SPLAT. Telefrag. Mah would have the spot.
The only real thing that I hate about the big maps is the time it takes to play them. If there was a time limit of say 7 minutes, then it would up the intense factor for me a bunch. I have 7 minutes to out think and out shoot my opponents. I have to either move and hunt or guide and risk getting found. Where you (MEAT) take joy in the long term hunt, I get bored.
NOW, I love the sniper mod for the exact opposite reason. The longer I have the better. It is much more of a hunting mod than redeemers, but it seems that a lot of people that like redeemers like snipers and vice versa.
Hmmm. I may have a suggestion. The DOU have a server where you can choose between game types. Let's say that you do this on your server, MEAT. Using the same maps, add an option for using sniper rifles as well. Not Redeemers and sniper rifles at the same time, but either one or the other. This may bring more peeps to your server and get them turned on to redeemers. Snipers servers are more popular and I know that most peeps are willing to try out new servers when they find them.
Just a thought.
MEAT said:
Hmm. Challenge in spraying? I think for me the challenge is using the spraying to hold the defensive position long enough to win. This may include using spawn points, but the majority of the time I am spraying the walls with two or three shots to build a "shield" around myself while the fourth shot is a guided "offensive strike". That way, I can control the point and seek and destroy.Jarg, if I understand you correctly you don't see the challenge in spraying but you get a
adrenalin rush in stopping the sprayer? If that is the case I'm with you 100%
Now, if someone wants to get to me, they have to use their wits. Also, timing is KEY. If my pattern is too... for lack of a better term, un-random, then they can use that against me to get to me and beat me.
Now if someone else has the point, then a grin almost always crosses my face because I LOVE to try and outsmart them. Mahatma and myself used to get into these kinds of battles a LOT. We would almost ignore the other players to try and get the "cherry" position. If I had it, then I KNEW Mah was going to gun for me. This made it even more intense. You feel that you have to look over your shoulder all of the time. When you least expect it. Beep beep beep SPLAT. Telefrag. Mah would have the spot.
The only real thing that I hate about the big maps is the time it takes to play them. If there was a time limit of say 7 minutes, then it would up the intense factor for me a bunch. I have 7 minutes to out think and out shoot my opponents. I have to either move and hunt or guide and risk getting found. Where you (MEAT) take joy in the long term hunt, I get bored.
NOW, I love the sniper mod for the exact opposite reason. The longer I have the better. It is much more of a hunting mod than redeemers, but it seems that a lot of people that like redeemers like snipers and vice versa.
Hmmm. I may have a suggestion. The DOU have a server where you can choose between game types. Let's say that you do this on your server, MEAT. Using the same maps, add an option for using sniper rifles as well. Not Redeemers and sniper rifles at the same time, but either one or the other. This may bring more peeps to your server and get them turned on to redeemers. Snipers servers are more popular and I know that most peeps are willing to try out new servers when they find them.
Just a thought.