nooBie noOBie NOob nOOb!!!!

[bumMmonkeY]

now,, im tolerant to other ppls playing style, but you wanna know what kinda erks me??

when ppl just sit next to spawn points and blast on spawners.

its very true of dark city..

where you got that room (not naming names) and that dude who sits there and shoots the door and wall from behind his lil box the whole time with the intention of killing spawners outside the room.
you know? "the NOOB room."

its funny to watch how ppl have tactics and positions in MRS. but when your only playin to find the one area where you can get the fastest amount of frags by killin spawners....is it even worth playin?

i mean...get out....run around...develop your skills.
i Know by this method, im gettin better everyday.
i actually had a compliment the other day on MRS from another really good player who thought i was MEAT using a different name. lol (btw im veGetABLes on MRS now, i thought it was appropriaTe lmao)

I visit the noob room and other crud spots frequently just to clear it out and make the occupant have at least a few seconds of REAL gaming while hes running like a dog with its tail between its legs back to the NOOB room.

there are millions of places like the noob room. I know if i was developing a map id definately take into account for these gamers who cant play.

well thats my gripe.

what YOU think?

bumMmonkey

[Hermskii]

I think you are real! Great! Good points you mention too but being the admin of the currently downed Redeemer server of "CG" I can tell you that it all counts no matter what. Spawn killing is part of the name of the game here. You are smart enough to get out of those areas for a reason. They will be too soon enough. TEACH them and spread the game too. Later! Thanks for your input. It matters big time.

[MEAT]

Don't get be started...lol

Yo monkeY dude.....Great minds think alike and I hear what you're saying. But keep it your thoughts
and opinions on the down low. Most people here think that spawn kills and bots kills are norm for the game.
"Spray and Pray" as I like to call it. But again, if it was a perfect world and a perfect game we
would all spawn in a safe place.
On the other hand I rather earn my kills/wins and I rather play against "REAL" people
and not against bots and spawn points that are programed into this game.

And as for the map you mentioned I know the spot and laugh everytime I see
someone there spawn killing. Sure it's a way to win a game but it's a chicken "Expletive Deleted"
way to do it.
And I really really doubt the designers of UT or builders of maps had that in mind when they were making that map.
Although some people that run servers would argue the point.
And oh yes, don't get me wrong, I'll stoup to that level for a win and to just to get along with the norm.
Because I'm just tired of fighting the issue of closed minds.

Welcome to the forum and please post at will.

[Hook]

I Played you MRSvegetables - your not bad! Remember me? Hook
I mostly agree with you but to each their own - I just kinda ignor those spawn killers and regard them as somewhat skill-less!

[Scify]

I can't spread like others. I do what hide-n-glide . I don't hide spwan place because other skill hide-n-glide preson can out root them. I can do that.You ask meat about I hide in semi hard place to reach.Some player who find me.I called Shoot and run. LOL. I like see Meat try place wher I glide from. I know spot one on dark city he do.I know I am fair player.
Hey herm can you put back Fright Night on your server.

[bumMmonkeY]

hey, yeah hook i remember playin ya'. from memory they were some good matches. Cheers.
Hey scify!!
I dont know meat, it just really bugs me...i mean you could prob remember when you first met me in CG, i was soooo teribly crap at this game. But through hard work and staying away from the easy fix (spawn killers) i regard myself as a decent player.
I mean, i hate to say it, but i think i play MRS these days more than anyone else. (and i know...im currently LOOKING for a life!!! lol) it just feels like a kick in the face when all your hard work goes down the tube to someone who thinks hes the bomb deemer champ!! lol
Another example is: deck17R...you cant help but hit spawners and it seems like thats half the idea of that map. cool, fair enough...but bring on maps like the big tree one...alam forna or whatever its called....or the church one.
Nothin beats takin your spawner killaz out in them maps...i did it yesterday...we went from dark city, to hall of legends straight to alam forna...there were two spawn killaz there and it seperated the men from the boys.
Also, i played a dude yesterday, his name is like 12ax somethin somethin. hes pretty darn good too. it was a lot of gg's.
anywho, dont think im just here to beyatch about ppl. just one of those things i needed to get off my chest and see what everyone else thought.

ohhh yeah...who is hermskii? i havnt met him/her yet....i figure your the person behind all the servers in this forum??

Cheers.

Big'OL'mONkeyBuMS

[Hook]

Yes - Hermskii is the Admin here!
He also hosts CG & MHM.
He also hosts MEAT's Forums! (but not MEAT's Server I think) LOL
Yes it was FUN playing with you! We think alike for the most part! (I think?)
C ya Round!

[a nameless entity]

As I've said a hundred times before, spawn killing is a legitimate aspect of Redeemer Arena. Your job as a player is to learn how to root those guys out of spots like the one you mention in Dark City.

You must also learn the best ways to quickly escape the targeted spawn point. This means you must recognize immediately where you are when you spawn, and then use the best possible escape route from such spots. With practice you will find that you can often escape the spot in question in between salvos from the other player. You may be severely damaged, but you will have survived. If you get stuck in the "loop of poop" just keep trying to escape. Eventually you will spawn somewhere else, and can go hunt down the spawn killer via run and gun, or hide 'n glide.

It is also critical to learn each and every map in the server's rotation by heart. You must have a clear picture in your mind of every map's layout, and know instantly where you are in each map, at every spawn point. Once you have done this, you are well equiped to become a very dangerous player.

It's too bad you never got to play on Schwantz's server, with the regulars who hung out there. They knew the maps as I've described, and were all deadly spawn killers. It was really something to see these guys play, and watch them run and gun and cover the spawn points from their spots. You had a hell of a time rooting them out of there, because they were expert at defensive fire also. The games were fast paced and loads of fun, because everyone accepted the fact that spawn killing was the way to win. You would often hear one of the regulars saying "got it" over and over again, which was their way of acknowledging that they had gone into the "loop of poop". Too funny!

You might think that this made the game rather random as to who would win. It did not. Except perhaps for the top 3 players. Those with slightly lesser skills would do well to come in 3rd or 4th consistantly. Those with even lesser skills would always come in at the bottom of the heap. You had to be damn good to win consistently. It takes skill to play well, and win often.
I tried for two years to get as good as these guys were, but would rarely win. By the end of the second year I could routinely hold down 3rd or 4th place on a good day, when I was sharp. Otherwise I was right back down at the bottom.

As I said, all forms of play are valid in this mod. It is up to you to get good enough to be able to deal with any players whose style of play you disagree with.

[MEAT]

My main reason for starting my own server and using mostly larger maps was to get away from the "spray & pray and the spawn kills".
And being that UT and mostly UT servers back 8 years ago were only providing smaller maps I understand that that was the only way to win.
Especially if you were playing "Redeemer" in maps designed for hand to hand combat.
And I don't think the makers of UT thought there would ever be any "Redeemer" server out there....so they made smaller/tighter maps.
Designed more for the small weapon and close combat.
Plus, the larger maps you see today are considered "Sniper" maps. Which I use with the "Redeemer".

That being said and like I've said 101 times before, "If you're going to play the smaller maps you have no choice but to "spray and pray".
And you have to spawn kill, for the most part, if you want to win.
Not necessary a legitimate aspect of the game but a necessity when it come to smaller maps.
The problem lies with those that can't see passed playing the smaller maps. Those, for lack of words, we call old school.
And don't get be wrong, there is nothing wrong with old school players.

And sure, practice and learning maps is a start but it doesn't necessarily make you a good player.
It's those that can adapt to any situation or any map that we should consider our better players.

And please don't get me started on "BOT kills". If I wanted to play against bots I'd play offline with one hand in my pocket.
To truely say you're a better player please Don't kill a BOT (a nonconforming entity) and say you're special.

And one last thought.
In a perfect world or a perfect gaming society I think we should play against real people and not against bots and map irregularities.
But until that time comes we have no choice but to play what is dealt to us.
Just one mans opinion so don't quote me as gospel.

[Scify]

Old school play know how play small maps

Old school listen to sounds around them. One time Meat try telefrag me . I hear he with translocator.I didn't realize he was right behide me lucky for me there was pole save me

[bumMmonkeY]

I am sorry but i totally dissagree no name entry,
I dont believe there is one ounce of skill in spawn killing.for example. my 14 yo brother prooved that game after game the other day and he was playing ppl who have been playing for years...(old school) and its his second game....simply by spawn killing.
Anyone can shoot at the one spot, jeez i can nearly get godlike EVERYTIME if i do it...but i refrain and get out and use the deemer like its ment to be used...that is...in conjunction with the xloc to use "skill" to beat other players. i just dont see the point of playing at all if im spawn killing.
dont get me wrong, if im happening along and someone spawns right in front of me, ill take a few steps away and smash him up and be on my merry way...not find the nearest convenient hidey hole and wait for the next hapless sonofabitch to pop up.
As far as im concerned, ppl who spawn kill are not skilled players in any respect. ,Iid love to see the MRS maps get bigger and bigger, no decks, no small cities, no soccerfeilds. youd find alot of demmer players move to sniper real fast.
oh i wish there was a mod to spawn random everytime you die.
occasionally you get a decent map where there are heaps more spawn points than usual. but totally random would be fair i think.
To me nothing is more annoying than when your trying to have a game against some ppl with the same skills and your droppin or they are dropping frags to a "poop-shooter"
Me personally, im not here to make my ngstats look good, im here to play against REAL ppl and develop my skills and do it with integrity.
at the end of the day i dont mind if i got flogged, at least i gave it a decent go. i dont know many ppl who say " wow...that guy is an awsome spawn killer, when i grow up, i wanna be JUST like him!!" more like " oh *exploite deleted!!!, that guy should go back to playin mario cart,!" (not that there is ANYTHING at all wrong with mario cart lmao) winning ISNT everything....gaining a bit of respect for the way you play is more important. having said that, on MRS i have played some very skilled players and i think thats why i made the change from sniper to deemer, was because it does take more skill (i think) to master such a HUGE ^
%^&^%# of a weapon. and these ppl help me develop my skills by interacting, i dont learn anything from chewing warheads from the same corner 100000000 times in a row.
anywho,
my thoughts.

bumMmonkey

p.s. any idea why my pic dosnt load on this page?

[Hook]

I am not going to argue that spawn killing IS a legit part of Redeemer Arena - because it is & always has been.
I know because that was the way it was way back when & still is now.
I have played on most all the OLD (Old Skool) servers back in the day!
I (as I am now) was more of a casual Redeemer player but am a bit more into it now than back then.
I believe that is where I met Hermskii.
Boy, I don't even remember when I met him, but it has been awhile.
I will agree with bumMmonkeY(and I think MEAT ) because that is MY Opinion! (and his/theirs)
But, TO EACH THEIR OWN!
Spawn killing isn't MY thing!
And - I guess I have a bit more respect for players that don't spawn kill, but I take each instance into consideration - some spawn kill just for some fun - not a biggy to me, but just a bit annoying.
I much prefer ride & glide seeking out the enemy slyly - with some spray & pray in there a bit. LOL
Some maps I own at (even with some good players) and others I really do bad.
Also depends on how tired I am LOL!!!
The main thing is I have fun. If Spawn Killers attack me well it annoys me a bit but like I said, I tend to shrug it off as a desperate attempt by them or just someone having some fun with me. I ignor it as best I can.
I am not sure, but as a mapper, I think that you may be able to set the spawn points so they don't always spawn you at the same location???
I will have to take a look at that sometime again!

[Hermskii]

I skipped to the end of this after scanning through every one's response to see what they thought. Let's all consider the "First Love Syndrome" here. That is where if you learned on a Mac, you prefer Macs and if you learned on a PC you prefer PCs. You grew up with a Hoover Vacuum so you have only bought them since etc etc etc.

When this "Redeemer Only Mod" came out, UT was was still young. There weren't really and big DM maps. It took me years to figure out how to download extra maps and even longer to learn how to upload them to a server for that matter.

The original "Redeemer Only Mod" also did not have a translocator. This little fact escapes everyone usually.

So, to try to put this into perspective for those of you who prefer the none run and gun method of play I must INSIST that before you complain about those players who do run and gun thus spawn killing often too, that you do this little thing:

This is on MEAT's part of the forum so this will have to happen on MEAT's server since I have already done this and already know the answer all to well. MEAT will have to remove the translocator option from the "non-original Redeemer Only Mod" that he and I both run on our servers (when mine works). MEAT must revert to the original "Redeemer Only Mod" for one week while not changing his current map selection or an even better challenge would be for the maps to be nothing but the stock maps that came with UT.

Hahaha. I already know what the results will be and I also nearly promise that MEAT won't do this no matter what and for good reason. I have run over 7 different Redeemer Only servers over the years and adjusted all of the often until the last several years. At some point, I have offered every option there is with this mod like Spawn Protection that MEAT uses, to faster and slower servers, to small maps only to big maps only, to w/ translocators and not with them, to stock maps only to nonstock maps only. You can't name something that I didn't already do with this mod. I even touched on the strangelove mod before and I've altered the Deemers to shoot firecrackers, I've added them to UT4E, I've added them to MonsterHunt, I used a grapple hook instead of translocators with Redeemer Only Mod (Which is totally awesome by the way!). So you see, I've pretty much touched it all and know it all already.

All of that said, ALL FRAGS IN GAME WITH THE REDEEMER ONLY MOD COUNT. You don't have to like it but really, you can police it, control it or help it anyways. And lastly, before those of you who disagree with me chime in with your continued opinion, be sure to know that I respect it no matter how much I disagree and expect the same from you. Ask yourself also, did MEAT take the no translocator / original maps only challenge? Did he do it with his current maps. You must ask yourself without him telling you................WHY NOT? I know. I don't want any of the old time originals screwing this up. Don't answer. Let these people think about it. I'll say the answer rides the fence line in part in that you can't please all of the people all of the time with this mod. Hell, just determining how many maps must be played before one can be replayed by mapvote is an argument that never stops and it is but only a spec in the decision making process of running a Redeemer Only Mod.

Thanks for your opinions too! I got all excited there for a minute! Later!

[bumMmonkeY]

i dont know...is it just me but is this forum based on beating around the bush and sugarcoating your opinions??
I mean, ive ALWAYS beleived if you got an opinion, come out and say it.
Just seems like everyone is walking on eggshells here...
The intended original post is "what do you think?"
not "what do you think plus heavy censorship based on the fear of stepping on toes?"
Dont get me wrong the intention was and is NOT not to start a massive "Expletive Deleted" fight, but to see if its some nurotic prob that i have that ALL spawn killers are lil freaks who either cant get laid or got beat up all of there schooling career and feel better by CHEAPLY getting frags by the PUSSIEST way possible to get to the end of the map and whisper to themselves..."see mummy..? i told you id MAKE something of myself!! lmao...now thats a funny scenario. lmao
i understand there will ALWAYS be spawn killers no matter what mod, server or 1st person shooter you play...its as sure as the sun rising in the morning...and i realise it is my opinion and there are others with different opinions, but for the love of all things golden...just say it!!! i mean who are we protecting here? im sure there are thousands of forums out there exactly the oposite to this one saying "run and gunners have no style, no class, no strategy" and im fine with that.
but when it comes to opinion, theres MINE
Spawn killers will NEVER earn ANY respect from me EVER and they will always remain onthe bottom of the MRS foodchain untill they deversify.
The reason they will remain that way is because there are heaps more maps out-numbering the noobie spots like 10000000 to 1.
I respect meat for being an increadible player.(im not kissin ass, because i know ill be better one day......SOON!!!! lol) but i appreciate when i was REALLY crud at this game, he spent the time to show me a few tecniques. Tecniques that not only have improved my playing 10 fold, but i feel like i learned from somebody who also respects the game and the other players.
Ive never had an oportunity to play deemer without a xloc but i imagine it would be rather difficult.
Having said that i also believe that the xloc also makes deemer maps HEAPS more interesting...lets face facts, in MRS if you cant use the xloc effeciently you have simply no chance. (i find this alot when the guy you just blew into a billion pieces was still shooting where you were seconds ago as you smash him up from behind.....if thats what you like to do lmao) Also, i had absolutly NOOOO idea what a xloc did before i started on meats so it gave me a chance to master two VERY powerful weapons.
Id definately have a crack at the mods you have listed hermskii, i think it would put ALOT of players out of the element and make em reconsider there techniques...im not to sure what the point is of saying meat has never done these mods.....maybe you could explain that one again? i know i wouldnt complain if i rocked up to MRS and my xloc was missing, id deal with the hand ive been dealt.(much like my appauling ping compared to all other palyers) and firecrackers??? now that just sounds sweet.
any who, i better stop now...sorry bout this being so looooong.

cheers for listening

bumMmonkey

[bumMmonkeY]

Also is it just me or does nearly every spawn killer have an extreamly hyperactive autotaunt???
last night i couldnt hear anything from the.
"boom"
" you are inferior"
" run human"
Lmao
you know when you repeat a word so often it starts to sound weird???
it was like that lmao
so im guessin MRS is on holidays?
any good suggestions of servers...pref deemers?
cuz CG's is down right?
Shodow Of Death was saying something about {DOU} has a deemer server and i cant find it.
dont worry meat...im not cheating on ya..lol
cheers