What just happened?

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What just happened?

Post by EvilGrins » Fri May 04, 2012 7:26 pm

I've been running into an issue with MH that reminded me of something that used to happen in other gametypes. For example, say I'm running a CTF game and randomly spawn a monster into it. I've noticed that fairly often if the monster is killed enough times it can end the game long before there's sufficient flag captures or the time runs out.

This was primarily with the MonsterMadness or MonsterSpawn mutators. Was taking advantage of the fact it generates monsters into team games as the Gold team.

Simpler: Why does killing a monster in CTF sometimes end the game prematurely?

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Re: What just happened?

Post by EvilGrins » Sat May 05, 2012 1:18 am

Additional question, cuz i didn't wanna start a separate thread.

If you summon a monster into a team game (summon unreali.krall for example) why is it the red team (bots) will completely ignore the monster even when it attacks them?

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Re: What just happened?

Post by Hermskii » Sat May 05, 2012 8:43 am

That is a great question about why when summoning does the red team ignore the monster. I counter question you with this. Have you run any of these same test with MH2 mod installed? I also wonder what our resident coder thinks about this. Nelsona?
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Re: What just happened?

Post by Terraniux » Sat May 05, 2012 9:48 am

The answer is actually quite obvious. Monsters are bound to certain gameplay mutators, when they are (being) spawned. It ruins the currect game and the engine does not know how workaround this problem. Only a special-written mutator can handle it.
I would call it a bug/glitch.

The same happens in MH when you spawn Male/Female bots. It crashes when you start the game.

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Re: What just happened?

Post by EvilGrins » Sat May 05, 2012 3:57 pm

Hermskii wrote:That is a great question about why when summoning does the red team ignore the monster. I counter question you with this. Have you run any of these same test with MH2 mod installed? I also wonder what our resident coder thinks about this. Nelsona?
I don't use MH2, plus these questions aren't really for MH anyway.

The first part with the monster ending a CTF game prematurely is an issue similar to putting a player bot onto an MH map. Sometimes the map will end "Hunt Successful" even if the hunt isn't anywhere near over yet.
Terraniux wrote:The answer is actually quite obvious. Monsters are bound to certain gameplay mutators, when they are (being) spawned. It ruins the currect game and the engine does not know how workaround this problem. Only a special-written mutator can handle it.
I would call it a bug/glitch.

The same happens in MH when you spawn Male/Female bots. It crashes when you start the game.
Interesting.

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Re: What just happened?

Post by Hermskii » Sat May 05, 2012 9:32 pm

Hello Terra. Thanks for jumping in with the answer for us. I certainly appreciate it.
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Re: What just happened?

Post by Nelsona » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:43 am

Is not a bump, I looked at this problem after even reading some info posted near mutators as TXT aditional instructions, I looked at some codes.

If I'm working at MH this not means I don't know monsters and I cannot predict bad things happening at adding monsters in other games.

Let's see what king of ideeas had some guys.

I tested some months MonsterMadness (from others and from my side - Totaly bad ideea) Monsters shouldn't have bIsPlayer never ever. Such a monster might affect timers and more things (0 ping in scoreboard for any player conected to server). Pickups are done for players not for monsters, Flag is done for player not for monsters, anything can be a mess then.

Default Monsters ? Well I looked at CTF controller. Since Monsters and bots aren't interested about themselves (monster rarely might attack bot if is anoyed by him), I didn't noticed something declared in Bot attitude. So our pawns aren't OK there. I repeat, this is CTF not MH2 or MH or some bullshit.
Noticing these issues Mr. Loathsome worked some packages containing default UT99 games but tweaked for playing with monsters. Even he did different mutators for these attitudes.

A small logic Question: Why this man wasted time to rebuild default games to be played with monsters ?
A small logic answer: Because defaults aren't meant for playing with monsters without to see errors in game and in console (speaking about servers).

As I said I guess 10 times before: Botpack has settings in UTxxx.ini like bNoMonsters = True. Changing this to False won't solve missing codes undone by some lazy programmers.
Even some monsters won't spawn (engine is destroying strange pawns found in game)

Will be just a nasty spam if I start to explain coding details and even to not be readed (as usual).

In DM, BOT might attack monsters but even a Berserker will camp useless doing nothing with his insane default aggressivity.

Other classes abstracted of default monster with a reworked attitude code might act different and with almost 0 errors in combat states. Defaults are a mess.

Anyway is possible to have a CTF party with monsters but is a better way to use UTSPfix package, not default. Also exist mutators done by the same author to spawn some monsters. Also mutators meant for such games are somehow most better options than summoning manually a crap. Monster spawned by a mutator will receive something, monster summoned manually is just a kind of nobody attacking the mostly the player.

Will continue... I go to work...

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Re: What just happened?

Post by Nelsona » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:05 pm

Back and checked other things.

I noticed at default monsters some teaming behavior but not in any default controller.

Assuming we can assign some TeamID and TeamTag for 3 different monsters they can attack player if are instigated without to care about themselves. At least a Bot entered in party will notice a different TeamID for our monsters and will attack if encounter them.
Where I found Ideea of TeamID for monster and why I didn't found this as being bad. I studied function ChooseTeamAttackFor belongs to ScriptedPawn and nearby lines of code and I found different options of combat depending on TeamID. So TeamID is not really a bullshit, is just an unused thing. How many games are using these team features ? I don't know. I didn't noticed them in any default UT99 game.

Monsters ? They are just slaughtered by Bots without any reaction.

Maybe you will say that I've posted bullshits now. Not true ! I already tested this, too.

I builded some controller based on these needs, I checked them directly in HUD hooked by a version of MindReader2 and I noticed what kind of attitudes have boths sides. For this reason, monsters especially must be instigated against bots injecting hate against let's say the closer Bot or something like this. As result, default CTF or some other games will mess up in attack speaking about Monster Vs Bot, In CTF both A.I. are disaster.

Did anybody else tested different tricks ? Let me know.

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