Mapping related options

Posts about Nelsona's findings in UT!
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Mapping related options

Post by Nelsona » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:50 pm

Last time I was walking and doing sort of MH maps and not only such maps testing my A.I. handling skills.
Because Editor is not always a good friend I had to fix/tweak several problems in purpose to gain different results - better results.
What is about ? From family BrushBuilder I think a BrushBuilder is not restricted at creating a brush (more or less rammed). A BrushBuilder is an object which can do even some fixes to some settings messed up. MapGarbage is one of those helping me to do some commands without using console - generic fixes. Other commands are not needed in a BrushBuilder but new buttons can be created in Editor for doing some changes or fixing geometry.
I could figure these by inspecting a ToolBarCreator application which is not doing any hack to Editor but adding some icon files and... adding a few INI options - all of these can be removed later if are bugging mapping spirits.
The most of stuff is being posted at ut99.org in some "Mapping" - "UED Add ons" thread.

Idea has been started by Chamberly asking what community want in Editor and which can be added by Higor. Until some native support will get fired up, I went to bring simple stuff doable without special coding. Commands are available in Editor but... there are no buttons for some of them, so we can put up some small goodies.
Combining these with XC_PathBuilder by Higor I can say that we have some stuff for making good maps if mapper is also being interested about those video tutorials posted and very explanatory.

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Re: Mapping related options

Post by Nelsona » Sun May 17, 2020 12:28 pm

A bump for year 2020.

The year 2020 is showing more progress than I initially predicted. The UT editor is quite poor in options due to the rather weak engine that does not provide advanced access to the properties of the actors. We now have the ability to manually handle the navigation paths using the UGold227 Editor. Here we can build the skeleton of a MonsterHunt CTF DM map, and the end with the specific parts is completed in UT. If we are bugged by some navigation paths for Bots, we simply delete them, and those missing ones can be added. In the end, I lived to really see what can be created in the Editor.

I found it useful to discuss these new options. Of course, changing navigation network does not exist in old and new stocks. For this purpose, I created an extension similar to what the Editor has - a kind of so-called builder. It helps us to create connections where the Editor refuses to collaborate. The extension is based on the new functions offered by the 227 Engine and the navigation specifications are recognized in UT without any problems. There are some techniques that need to be known when doing such operations, but the idea is that we can do manually what the Editor refuses with its automated scripts. The man takes control.

We can discuss the subject in more detail if anyone is interested in such maneuvers and has knowledge of how UT navigation works.

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Re: Mapping related options

Post by Hermskii » Sun May 17, 2020 11:11 pm

I wish I had a clue but I don't. I still appreciate hearing about this stuff.
~Peace~

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Re: Mapping related options

Post by Nelsona » Mon May 18, 2020 1:55 pm

I totally agree here. For example, I changed the original stock a bit for the version used by Editor, because even the compilation of some packages is restricted by the poor stock that UT has. Not only can we act on the so-called constants that are bugging us, but we can see data that we don't usually see, that exists, and some of it doesn't help at anything other than generating a larger map. The new UT updated to version 469 seems to take into account the garbage in the map, XC_EditorAdds which is another builder for Editor also has a function for cleaning maps of unnecessary debris accumulated inside.

Network navigation on old Unreal maps is simpler than what UT does. It doesn't have as much data and it works without problems, UT has additions that haven't been completed, a collection of useless stuff that just causes extra bits more than it helps.

Upon request we can discuss more, in other words we have more details at HOF. Who does not understand everything, we change the terms of expression, we do exercises as much as will be needed for a good understanding.

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Re: Mapping related options

Post by Nelsona » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:38 pm

Bump 2021...

It's probably not really finished but enough featured a sort of "Brush Builder" but what it does are not brushes as much as it allows user to create Navigation PATHS for A.I. and even to MODIFY/Move paths between navigation nodes. Users annoyed by the way and bugged methods which original DevPath is having, have the freedom here to dictate what sort of Paths are needed in stage, you can even setup those damn paths-lines exclusively hand-made guiding A.I. activity exactly as mapper wants - there is needed a bit of knowledge about what does that means PATHS and these extra-options.
This way map will not be loaded with useless debris paths never used in run-time, paths are pretty much compatible with a wide range of creatures and user has full control to deviate paths around heavy spots as it's needed. Instead of a blind automation tested X times, handling paths creation 50% automated and 50% by user returns better results.

In tech terms UT'99 doesn't have opened access to these assets concerning paths/ReachSpecs - it only draws paths-lines. Builder is not written using whatever Alien Tech, it's based on XC_Engine. If XC_Engine might be funky in run-time during game-play at least it has a good purpose for Editor and won't deliver a map incompatible with normal UT out of XC_Engine. Map it's usable normally but it's more "educated". XC_Engine version used as Base for this Builder it's version 24 and above. XC_Engine 21 has something improved for paths but... I found some of these functions just bytes added as they don't do anything - at least not in Editor.

Explanations and reasons:
I decided writing this Builder because in UT'99 I did not know anything for working at paths with a minimal set of features as U227 is having, but that thing breaks certain assets in UT maps and damaging a map it's the last thing which I need. Handling paths in UT was possible with XC_Engine only in Game, not in Editor for saving a permanent improved map not hacked all the time in run-time. I have requested often such features but I think I was talking at walls and then... I had to get my hands on stage. So far this is a work in progress, definitely I cannot expect more users of this toy as long as this domain is alien language for majority of users which are having wrong assumptions about pathing generally due to "smart" tutorials which are delivering lousy information with ramp myths, heavy Red Paths when in reality the true pathing story it's more or less known.

Updated files and future files can be found in builders repository at HOF
https://hofgamingclan.com/forums/viewto ... =502#p3365
At current time I'm tinkering a bit codes for optimizations, whoever wants a new adventure in building paths, builder comes with features. Me one I'm about to forget Editor devs at this point. Automated scripts are not having human eyes for figuring what you need and are bugged, some of these issues can be propagated in this work but user has the last word and damage can be suppressed. "PointReachable" in UE1 looks damaged and some of these assets are needed during map pathing task.
ARandomWork.PNG
In this image we do have a map fully functional with paths executed manually using this tool. All flaws belongs to MonsterHunt and not to the paths - they are working in any stock install with MonsterHunt. Improved MonsterHunt controllers will work 100% guaranteed.
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Re: Mapping related options

Post by Nelsona » Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:29 pm

Bump note:
Editor Builders known or unknown as custom editing plugins have been updated.
Why updating ?
- Updates are intended for less manual work but still allowing control over Navigation assets.
- Updates can solve automatically some lousy things which XC stuff does in water and not only there.
- Newer 469 assets have other "adds" that need adjusted because they don't make any sense.
- And so on...
As usual documents are explaining a bit what is added and what it does and what it doesn't do. Special mapping situations are not subject for concerns.
The thing in 2023 is that user/mapper can completely add Bot Support / Monster Support in a map exactly as he/she wants having full control over these things which plain stock won't do - full manual work and control. The goal is a quality work, for those understanding what is all about.

The other tool which can be helpful is PathsChecker placed in the same Location.
PathsChecker does a full scan or partial scan for known stock objectives (CTF, DOM, DM maps + MonsterHunt). Mainly it's testing if Map has logic paths from each PlayerStart to all possible assets that are goals for Artificial Intelligence aka Bots. This way we can have a clue which weapons are not taken in game and what Nodes are frankly useless. The rest of checks are subject for run-time testing because... in game things are different than from Editor...

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Re: Mapping related options

Post by Hermskii » Thu May 25, 2023 10:43 am

Nelsona lives! Been a long time!
~Peace~

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