Need More Fixes ?

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Nelsona
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Re: Need More Fixes ?

Post by Nelsona » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:48 am

EvilGrins wrote:Most all the monsters in UT are set to "Brains-Human" but I switch them to one of the other 5 choices, usually "Brains-Reptile" which makes them slightly more aggressive.
I tweaked all to Brain-Numan in some versions and I've done this for a reason. Imagine a lava river or some acid zone between you and some pupaes. Now come closer to be detected. Look at them how are jumping very fast and falling in a lame suicide. With more Brain this isn't really happening very often, but this won't solve their issues in finding paths. (are too small and won't collide pathnodes using normal locomotion). About monsters ? Eh, I can answer to a few questions based on my knowledge learned from a few web pages which are currently dead.

A monster might have some fear sometimes by player. Even with this fear they can fight (monsters with brain Human especially) with aggresivity once reached at Home - more exactly HOMEBASE described in a tutorial with "?" sign. Yeah, a smart one has no ideea how to set it up. This HomeBase is a NavigationPoint can be a part of path-net. The Tag can be any string, monsters with the same Tag if are strongly wounded will run here, at HomeBase (Skaarj, Slith, Krall, Mercs) all with travel feature. Once reached home they don't have fear any more, will fight until last breath. Nobody saw this ? Good, because in the most of MH maps nobody made a Monster Support even in 12 years of UT, heck. Exist other combination that can be used. Monsters spawned from a factory might have an order like "Ambushing". You have to set for OrderTag a string. Later, you can add an ambushpoint with the same tag - Triggered monsters will run to Ambushpoint to ambush players. Also monster spawned later from these factories might have a Tag, and guess, HomeBase tag to set their HomeBase correctly. So, if you place their HomeBase in the middle of players (defence position) they will come at player even they are affraid because they are just runing at HomeBase looking like they are attacking. Monsters very far (which cannot see a player) in map can be triggered under a DistanceViewTrigger (as Zacman said in a forum - but a Big One) I checked this and I found the right way to deal with such things. DistanceViewTrigger can be activated with a normal trigger (but very big - covering player area) 1) (set with OtherTriggerToggles) which is turned on and off (to avoid some blocking) each 2 seconds or a bit less by a TimedTrigger 2). Results are as follows: trigger 1) will be active and inactive faster making monsters to see temporary the player and to start hunting them or to follow their order. Later is turned off for 1 second and back ON for next monsters. Toggling like this you might keep their attack. The only problem is to not spawn them too much because they don't have the function "GiveWay" like Bots and might remain Blocked in path. And all these are just a few basics quite efficient to develop a kind of Monster Hunting. Studying these things intensively, anybody can find different solutions, but the most of people know BlockMonsters and spaming. Well: Good luck, dudes !

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Re: Need More Fixes ?

Post by Nelsona » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:41 am

Oh, I just solved a possible random attack break in MH. Updates are coming anytime when bad things are happening...

A Bot runing for Position 2 (just example) if boosted or moving in combat might touch Position 3 or 4 too early will break attack, even player can affect this. Now this won't happen, any Waypoint than desired target cannot be triggered too early. Because I visited that section I added a small feature from Domination (they dominated area :mrgreen: ), will send a taunt "Control point is secure".

I'm thinking to a deal when game is ended. Some victory dance I guess is more close to normal...

Playing more seems to shows different bugs in A.I. side of MH, aargh. I didn't noticed them too much when I played without Bots.

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Re: Need More Fixes ?

Post by Nelsona » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:43 pm

Other accesed none eliminated :lol:

In MH's A.I. code a Bot is triggered against monsters and monsters are instigated to hunt Bots by Bot code itself.

Is this OK for everybody ? Not really, and is not about Nali or Cow. Until this moment I was surprised to see another error: UnrealShare.ScriptedPawn.SetEnemy..... Accesed None. Guess who delivered this trash. An useless double call to DevilFish. Yea, this class can be excepted because a DevilFish is attacking any pawn who jumped in water doesn't mater who is it and will set enemy that pawn anyway conflicting in this case with attraction making a double call. Hard to notice this ? Can be, depends on map played.

Yeah, bit by bit I'll collect all errors in a MB of errors. Very late I remembered a bad pathed CTF map where Bots were hacked by class DevilFish without any special tweak.

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Re: Need More Fixes ?

Post by Nelsona » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:01 am

At testing Bots vs Devilfish feature, is not the best ever fight. After hacking Bots, this animal is no longer interested in combat (seems to cannot be bumped a second time (by Bots) - I think is tired and need sleep :lol: ). I saw this even for other monsters. First encounter seems more aggressive then later encounter. I think this is a small issue based on SinglePlayer. Player killed will end game and who cares about monsters any more ? Eh, porting them to Tournament where player is respawning is not 100% perfect. But small flaws can be ignored.

This accesed none if isn't completely eliminated, at least is reduced, grr.

Anyway I attacked this issue with swimers against Bots looking at player behavior. Exist players who run forward without to jump in water for a Squid or Devilfish (or BiterFish) since their way for victory is not in water. This player will fight with these, only felt in water (wants to survive - monsters from water are now attacking). I copied this attitude to Bots. I mean Bots will hunt monsters around. If by chance one of them felt in water, will be attacked by Monsters and is necesary to fight back, they won't jump in water by default with risk to lose paths and to remain there useless (imagine a Skaarj felt in water who still fire at Bot - in this case monster is hunted because is a danger (SkaarjSniper armed in skill level 3 ... cough)). They might strafe with madness delivering a kind of MonsterHunt without to leave the battlefield too early. Is not anymore a risk to break attack if they touch other Position. When things are so quiet and death's silence is now welcomed, they go to hunt next monsters.

I'm continuing to work at fine tuning.

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Re: Need More Fixes ?

Post by Hermskii » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:09 am

So if a bot and a monster fall into water where there are squids and those stupid little fish, who would attack who?
~Peace~

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Re: Need More Fixes ?

Post by Nelsona » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:58 am

1) Monster and Bot fight on land, both of them are falling in water. Condition is very simple (I'm really wander where is my head sometimes since I couldn't see simple things by default), monster and bot in the same region will keep fighting, new classes in the same zone are triggered exactly like for human player, battle is continuing (I just made exceptions to save A.I. handlers to trigger a squid against a bot who is not so visible anyway and cannot be attacked if Bot is walking on land). Once felt in water - Bot is in wrong house this time and will want to protect itself (like players) because squid can hack Bot in advantage of speed also for DevilFish, BiterFish is FlockPawn and behavior is like for Cannons, if aren't dangerous nobody is fighting, if is biting Bot, the Bot will fight back;
2) Bot is still on land and monsters (many) are in water. Are they harmfull for player ? I don't know, maybe if a Devilfish is armed with a Redeemer, :lol: . Monsters in water without fire are ignored because the Bot won't fight with monsters who cannot deliver a reply (is kind of dignity), also no need to jump in water (some maps are really bad pathed in water - no need losing attack);
3) Bot in water, monsters on land. Monster can hack or bite our Bot ? If not, is ignored (Bot need free resources to find his way). Monster can fire ? If yes, in this case is attacked (hunted) I found some "adrenaline" in Bot code and I triggered the combat (I guess is nasty for poor monster - In that state I didn't noticed to much fear at Bot)

Were a few simple rules to not execute a check for each monster who no need check.

I want to see CPU load for 1043 monsters vs 3 Bots.

Homework to be solved:
Next Section: To Be or not To Be, a Turbo A.I., I was thinking at other problem:
- We hunt monsters with a very big passion (maybe) - Bots will do the same;
- Suddenly we noticed that we have 10 minutes remaining for hunt. Ooops, we are almost to lose the match, right ? Right !
- Our Bot will be panicated as well, he wants to finish game or else will lose the battle. Cough, now is not so interested with high priority about monsters, is interested to finish mission randomly fighting with some monsters blocking ways because he want to be winner not loser.
Is this Good To Be or Not To Be ?

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Re: Need More Fixes ?

Post by Nelsona » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:22 pm

Wait a minute. I forgot about a few combat "features". I saw more times a Bot with Insta in inventory but using without succes a PulseGun which is not really a high range weapon. I think somebody from Epic was affraid of Bots and rated a crap useless even in CTF not only MH.

In a new MH controller if mapper decided to have Insta for hunters, must be a reason for this (or is non-logic breaking default rules). Bot will use this weapon if exist in inventory collected (like players). Imagine dudes that I recorded a few habbits of players and I transferred some data to artificial hunters...

Studying weaponry (I'm more a noob at weaponry chapter but I found a few issues but with some importance in handling weaponry when we speak about A.I.). Redeemer - a powerfull and sometimes usefull for MH - I didn't noticed Bots to use it so much even was a need to use it. BAD mod, BAD weapon, ilogic A.I. configuration ? Nope, starting from now on, if you are dead and your redeemer was collected by a Bot hunted by monsters, if you spawned and exist friendlyfire, run away man, run away. We are done with these retarded craps. I'm Bot, I have a powerfull weapon with more enemies arround but I'm not using it. Is this cool ? I think is just stupid. People say, MH-Bot is stupid, well let's see which one is stupid: Controller or Bot ? I think is the first :P.

Aditional question: Is anyone disturbed if Loque will be in stats ? Relax, I'm kidding, or not ? :twisted:

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Re: Need More Fixes ?

Post by Nelsona » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:46 am

I finished a fine tuning of artificial hunters. I think I have a load in controller but I just noticed a close to normal speed reaction of pawns. Monsters are acting enough well, Bot encroaching them closer won't move to target until nearby monsters are dead.

For maps with a big number of monsters except the problem of updating hundreds of actors in UT99 game-slot I didn't noticed a crash just 46% CPU load with 3 bots and maybe 300 400 triggered monsters.

I just have a big-small problem. I cannot really perform more tests because I don't have support. I collected all kind of maps with MonsterWaypoints but I'm worried about "ideas" or non-ideeas what is for that KeyPoint. Also I've seen maps with these Keypoints correctly set but bad paths, bad mmover settings and all things required to break action. I was curious in some of them if could be done normally, and yes, mapper had issue not A.I. !

I couldn't find Too many Normal MH maps to test "hunters", heck, I'll take a small break before to look at other possible fixes. Maybe is time (or is not recommended another load) to have a deal for maps without Bot support (unpathed) delivering some cover without to have paths (maybe I'll keep this in private for myself - nobody requested it and I think I won't share the ideea very soon).

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Re: Need More Fixes ?

Post by Nelsona » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:12 pm

Maybe next lines aren't interesting for nobody. I guess even mappers won't read nothing here messing up with sick stuff even after 30 years of UT, yeah, even starting from now on.

First of all I guess not many understood the differences between a local game played and a server dedicated to host a game played by more players. Things aren't so easy. UT contains default stuff to be played local. Old weapons meant for Single Player games don't have Net codes because simple weren't done for our server hosting a game for more people. If we want to copy a local party for more people hosted by a dedicated server we need to have Net Codes for our stuff used or else bad things might occur. This MonsterHunt and any Coop server contains replacements, yeah, better notice this well. A weapon unalterred and throwed in server can be totally blocked because of something named ClientPlayFire which not exist in any of those old craps, oops weapons. Default replacement won't copy all values in replacements. Certain things can show the reality but ignorant people won't see this ever. Let's see something simple:

3 Guys: This Map has a problem.
1 Guy: No, don't have, I played it.
3 Guys: Really, in Which server ?
1 Guy: Not in any server, in my PC local play.
3 Guys: .... something answered ...

This time 1 guy is a lost forum poster who don't have ideea what is posting, answering to people who play only in servers and noticing server troubles and in his imagination a server is the same like a local play. So, dudes, if you see Some WeaponHolders monsters altered in your map, you are guilty for that, not really the mod which plays that map, mod is based on a logical execution of codes and is a hard work to anticipate any stupid ideea because I didn't noticed the presence of Nostradamus in UT99 (I think is dead for a very long time :P).

Anyway Talking about MH weapons (oldweapons) I think that subclass of an already existent UIWeapons doubling a call will cause a slow code and troubles are showed as well. In default DM, I noticed Skaarj Armed normally with replaced UT stuff and very very rarely I noticed an Invisible weapon throwed. I MH this is often, especially when we are using regen tools, timers and ticks aren't friendly with these weapons and Skaarj. Even certain versions of UTJMH are throwing Skaarj in Team 0, I cannot see why was necesary this ideea because I removed it even I set a rule to never add Monsters in Team. Skaarj is a very closer class with TournamentPlayer especially when has no weapon. Once added in team 0 and friendly fire 0, will be totally unkillable until a weapon will remove his status of TournamentPlayer like human players. Adding other weapon than UnrealI or whatever UnrealShare bullshits, replacements won't alter them any more and they can hold successfully their inventory.

Why I'm not glad about Old weapons ? First of all, their decals are craps. QuadShot is unfinished (even in version 451 :P). Why Monsters are replicated in clients and weapons Not, this is my misterious question as well.

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Re: Need More Fixes ?

Post by Nelsona » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:40 am

Reminder for next days.

Soon I think I'll put up a server-tool, a more enhanced Spam Adjuster (is like MHMapAdjuster by Gopostal) but this time I'll attack and/or custom counter (any :twisted: ) and this because I don't need to play a map for a week (if server won't crash in 3 hours - I already tested such "cool" spaming features) I know very well why I need this, even if others seems to be interested in making players to leave a game.

Aditional Question: What is new last 2 years except spaming ? Somebody is feeling guilty ? Never mind.

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Re: Need More Fixes ?

Post by Nelsona » Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:55 pm

Woow ! So many monsters ! We have to kill them to not break map, maybe we can notice a few players leaving making action harder.

Oops ! Not really. A MHSpamAdjuster was borned as server-side (can be shared in private). I intend to obfuscate the code to make harder reading it and understanding in purpose to develop other kind of spam (anyway my small brain can develop anytime some cure - this time we have some party even in maps with custom counters, :P even named like KungFuPanda or Chucky ... :lol: ). Once tested in different maps it seems to work well, (even for Factories with 1 monster counted ...) ah... moment let me laugh and stop giving more details. I gotta admit, I need to learn some things about obfuscating a code. Maybe this will trigger people to learn something or to give up at crappy ideeas useless anyway...

Now I'm waiting for "different works" to see how many other "goodies" are about to be developed, and later I'll appear with a well tuned MH, even hosting a bit of quality for any new player and a decent shooter game.

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Re: Need More Fixes ?

Post by Nelsona » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:30 pm

... shooter game.

And Nice, because it's possible to have shadow decal for monsters on-line, more exactly for client players in different games with monsters, I tested it even in original MH. I don't need to make more tunes because I'm not encouraging default accesed nones belongs to MH503 - I just tested it to notice if might works or not. Also in UTCoop worked like a charm, in UTSPfix5, maybe I forgot to test others or simply they are too messed for wasting time with tests.

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Re: Need More Fixes ?

Post by Nelsona » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:46 pm

This might be a bit out of this topic. I was curious what is happening in MH servers generally.

I think I won't go On-Line too much, except when I test something in my server (not so public), is just stupid to look at 10 players with Bot behavior triggering continously a lift wrong set by mapper returning it constantly and nobody advancing either.

Maybe exist other way to learn something before to trigger me bad in fixing bullshits without asking any author (I'm asking only mappers not assumed mappers). Let's take a look at this nice link:

http://www.ut-files.com/index.php?dir=t ... es.com.rar

In case of noob PC operator (assumed mapper as well), Create a folder on a partition (if exists many) decompress that RAR and double-click on file "start.html" and take a look at some good advices there. Learn Bot Mapping for MH from original MH Help or something like a help. Look at Bots if they can handle or not movers (lifts). If not, learn Movers Chapter from tutorials, :P. If you don't know how to extract a RAR archive Read a PC User Guide or destroy your PC because you have nothing to lose :lol: , and also US - players.

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Re: Need More Fixes ?

Post by Nelsona » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:36 pm

If you don't know Bot mapping for MH let me present what is about (I tested already what I'll post in next lines).

MH contains a small and insufficient Bot support based on whatever ideea, yeah, with a minimum knowledge about Bot Pathing (A.I. pathing) you can deliver something, testing in this way how is your map vs noobs.

1) My advice is to forget ideeas to have more tens of MB for map with thousands of actors because A.I. might be transformed in garbage only waiting to be killed - Engine A.I. handlers are decreased in intensity;
2) Opening MonsterHunt.u file when you edit map - Browsing KeyPoints you will see something called MonsterWaypoint (Grammar Rules ? Cough, I guess the right matching name could be BotWaypoint) this one is a base for MH BOT Support, not whatever imagination delivered by whisky;
3) MonsterWaypoint is our point to be visited by Bots (not monsters :lol: ) - it contains at DefaultProperties a value named Position (default is 1). This one must be placed closer to a PathNode or a NavigationPoint (even I'm colliding them);
4) With good paths (blue color in editor) Bot might travel map touching Position 1, 2, 3 and so on, even launching events delivered by this KeyPoint (they have troubles in triggering movers when map is too loaded with actors (don't believe me, check yourself this with 0 monsters and with 100 monsters :P) - yes, you can place a pathnode closer to mover which need to be opened (triggered);
5) Once finished their default race through these keypoints their next target (or alternate target in case of missing Waypoints) is MonsterEnd trigger(s), yeah some dudes added more ends to be sure about end, maybe they suddenly forgot about CollisionRadius or CollisionHeight of a trigger;
6) All these actors need to be placed in a normal position, almost centered in bot's CollisionHeight (like pathnodes) or else they mess up in finding them;
7) Lifts unpathed might result in broken paths and Bot will do nothing runing in place (not in my MH - will just normally wander);
8) Use a decent load with ammo with RespawnTime 12 to 15 (better for MH but Shrimp was too tired to think about fixing this automatically) seconds, not everything in a single place and nothing else later even keep a distance between them (look at default maps - might help);
9) Ammo and/or shields can be placed a bit far from normal paths to not stuck a bot there collecting them forever.

As a note: Doesn't matter where your path is broken, if is broken, Bot won't go anywhere, leave original things learned from default Bot Support related to Flag or FortStandard or ControlPoints, MH is different, pathing rules need to be respected or else Bot won't work.

Do not mess up too much with JumpSpots (this isn't a jumpmatch - do not expect Vodoo Magic to happen - better force harder ways with PainPath or give up using rat holes heavy even for human players (I want to see some craps in servers with 10 players - friendlyfire = 0, AntiBoost level 100, :P, players colliding each others and a small place blocked by a player camping (speaking at phone maybe) = Pass if you can :twisted: )
Yeah, use small places for troubles and your map wil be removed, or use very huge places for frames lost when everybody is firing around and a nasty game with the same results.

Have fun !

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Re: Need More Fixes ?

Post by Nelsona » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:52 pm

Now let me post here a reminder for me (others aren't interested about this subject asking about unexpected errors), I'll post exactly some lines described by Steven Polge from EPIC:
Creating the Navigation Network

Unreal Tournament bots use a system of waypoints to navigate the level. Using waypoints allows UT to minimize the CPU cycles used by the AI, and gives level designers maximum control over how the AI navigates their levels.
MH is based on other kind of AI using almost the same technology in navigation.

My advice is to not use paths (we are just crawling, not hunting), put messed stuff in maps, load a bunch of polys, set movers to annoy people, load more than 5000 actors (if editor is still alive), spawn a lot of useless actors, stuff map with dead losers, put flockpawns aprox. 3000 pieces over acid zones, make more more BT zones... and Enjoy The Crash (This is what some people want as I noticed after 10 years). If you have more "ideeas" maybe are welcomed by others. I think finally I'm almost close to my desired MH, I won't help you in testing up mentioned craps.

My latest test conditions:
- I played with 3 Bots only maps with paths, or with full Bot Support;
- I didn't used cool mods, just normal UT stuff and MH inventory.

Observations:
- 0 crashes;
- Still need more love for Bots (I need to understand another "brain-side" in collecting something out of path very convinced, I want Bot Support even for worse Red Paths);
- No need damage out of AI visibility - I think I'll cap damage at 6000 UU (is lame not hunt firing at bigger range).

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