Bots arent leaving spawn.

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Bots arent leaving spawn.

Post by Terraniux » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:24 am

Hi Nelsona, maybe you could help me out with something.

For the first time my botpath is actually working in the map, except for 1 thing.
The bots just won't leave their spawn. Even though ALL paths in the editor from their spawn to the next room and around the map are all blue. Minimized redlines to a minimum. Tried 10000+ different things such as,

Changing pathnodes in front of them.
Changing the position of the playerstarts.
Changing Ammo and weapon placements.
Removing possible obstacles, boxes, walls etc.
Tempted with powerfull pickups, to lure them out.
Placing monsters in front of them to lure them out.

Here is a screenshot of the current, but most basic path:

The playerstarts are in upper left corner.
http://crystalunreal.com/screenshots/bots.jpg

The strange thing is when I say "cover me", let them follow me to the next room, then command them to free roam, they walk the network like they are desperate.

According to this page:
http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:Bot_Mind

They want something, but can't figure it out.

What I am doing wrong?

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Re: Bots arent leaving spawn.

Post by Nelsona » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:56 pm

Okay.
Testing if path is valid
1) Launch console
2) If exist some monsters input in console "killall ScriptedPawn" to not bug you any of them - Esc
3) Move from start until first door or somewhere as far as possible;
4) CenterView your HUD - there might be a key defaulted for CenterView
5) Console again - Once centered your view you might input in console "showall" - ESC
6) Pathnodes are now visible - move closer to one, not really touching it;
7) Console again - Input in console RememberSpot - ESC;
8) Move back a few steps - Console "ShowPath" - if a lamp spawns into a Pathnode Then there is a valid path for any A.I. having a normal decent size to that RememberSpot using the nearest node reachable;
9) Keep moving back (into start location direction) - repeat ShowPath command. Lamp spawn ? If yes, path is valid from this location forward to RememberSpot again;
10) Suddenly Lamp doesn't spawn and log says "Didn't find path" then there might be a broken area as follows: node to high, node to low, node too far, node too close to a wall, BSP or a nasty hole in path brutalizing normal pawn locomotion;
11) Assuming from Startlocation you can see lamp spawning into nodes guiding you to previous RememberSpot then you have path available to that RememberSpot.
12) Yes, lamp spawns all the time but Bots aren't cute. Reasons to not move:
- in MH5.04 are looking for an available weapon rated else hunt = 0 - no path to desired weapon = DM behavior - mock around available routes;
- Bot has weapon but is not interested to move or is MH v5.03 - result = no goal - Must have a MonsterWayPoint (if we talk about a MH map). MonsterWayPoint won't be higher placed, will be on the same height as a PathNode or a bit lower, also it won't be placed too far from Pathnode (use 200 300 UU max distance centered out of any wall or other solid actor).

MHBot usually in MH503 run and gun to waypoint if paths are available - Lamp always drive player to that goal location if map has valid pathing. In MH504 won't mess hunting unarmed properly (it was my madness to not see them acting like retards against a big guy). If has weapon and/or 160 health (yes, health is another thing welcomed) will move to MonsterWayPoint if a kind of threat has been removed - they usually kill monster or fallback into loading spots, it might retreat as well. In MH503 they might even turn butt to a monster which will kill them if has this chance due to insane race to MonsterWayPoint and/or MonsterEnd (if MonsterEnd is centered into some valid reachable spot using default locomotion nearby a path).

If you and other MH mappers need some help I'll try to make a debugger mutator responding at mutate commands in order to setup Bot target as human target too to be found with "ShowPath" command. My MH2 has this feature including a wick default visibility to nodes - in this way I can see if there might be a bad placed one by default without any command and I'm even playing like that. I simply can't stop enjoying MHBot play because I'm hunting away from nodes to not fell bugged by Bot.

Hints:
- Use bOneWay... ONLY if you know to set it properly else it might block navigation;
- Get rid of some jumpSpot if you have some higher placed and ImpactHammer and/or JumpBots are missing from that area;
- see using Showpath RememberSpot if Engine won't guide you between 2 nodes in infinite - Navigation Bug in computing road. Solving: Move one of those 2 nodes away, there might be sometimes even 3 nodes cycling in infinity. Apply the same solution.
If you get pissed of send me a beta version to do a direct examination.

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Re: Bots arent leaving spawn.

Post by Terraniux » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:21 pm

I've done everything you said, but none works. The commands Showpath, RememberSpot and Centerview are recognized by console, but nothing happens. Nothing visible either game or console. Should I configure something in order for it to work?

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Re: Bots arent leaving spawn.

Post by Nelsona » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:22 pm

Interesting...
Have you added a weapon for start and some MonsterWayPoint near a Pathnode ?

If really doesn't work link me to that because I'm really triggered.

If I recall well, I found some "Levels" giant levels with different custom decos, actors, different things messed a la 2010. There was absolute impossible to move Bot 2000 UU. It was like a strong light making them blind. That Level if I'm not wrong was one having much over 10 MB and something was seriously affecting engine since all pawns were acting like morons.
I wanna see this Level.

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Re: Bots arent leaving spawn.

Post by Nelsona » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:37 am

To understand how works RememberSpot and ShowPath try to check them into a known level having BotSupport (Demons][, KrogaarSE, Miam, Arden, etc.). I said LOG, console won't respond if command is valid but you have to place RememberSpot near a Pathnode and it will be done a single time for a single location in level. Example: Centerview in map Arden near NaliFruits placed around those two houses visible from gates that needs opened (after removing monsters) - input RememberSpot. Now go back at Start (near boxes) and input ShowPath. See LOG what says. It is impossible to not have a response positive or negative. After understanding how works Path-Testing for sure you will be able to set Bot-Pathing like a charm with 0 failures.
For MonsterHunt we can speak about MonsterWayPoint usage if you can do primary thing - pathing.

I simply loved this debugging so I have expanded it. In NsDM when you have a key bound for ShowPath, you can find the road to your opponent and he/she can do this too. No more annoying seeking each-other. Simply human will use paths to find other enemy in level. And works like a charm in maps well pathed. That's why I won't ever use anymore maps without Bot Pathing.

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Re: Bots arent leaving spawn.

Post by Terraniux » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:31 am

Nelsona wrote:Interesting...
Have you added a weapon for start and some MonsterWayPoint near a Pathnode ?

If really doesn't work link me to that because I'm really triggered.

If I recall well, I found some "Levels" giant levels with different custom decos, actors, different things messed a la 2010. There was absolute impossible to move Bot 2000 UU. It was like a strong light making them blind. That Level if I'm not wrong was one having much over 10 MB and something was seriously affecting engine since all pawns were acting like morons.
I wanna see this Level.
Pathnodes is the only thing that is placed throughout the map, 2 weapons and some ammo to pick up are present on spawn. As in screenshot. Tried using monsterway point, no chance either.

Well my map is 17mb, which will be 20+mb in a final edition since there to be some sounds and textures to be myleveled yet. The map is really big :mrgreen:
Could this be the problem? The path is just too big for them to handle on spawn?

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Re: Bots arent leaving spawn.

Post by Nelsona » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:20 am

KrogaarSE is bigger... but works because has weapons reachable and MonsterWaypoint.
Down there is captured a pathing test in map Arden+EB. RememberSpot has been placed near NaliFruits. I have returned to start and I have a bind like "set input x ShowPath". By pressing "x" I got this image:
path_found.JPG
Simple as pie I can see where have to move in order to reach at NaliFruits.

Such a test must be performed in your map. If works, then Bot needs a reachable goal (weapon, MonsterWayPoint, MonsterEnd). Without these specs they aren't interested to go anywhere. Watch and understand why I'm trying to say: Console is console and Log is Log, they aren't the same thing.
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Re: Bots arent leaving spawn.

Post by Terraniux » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:56 pm

If you get pissed of send me a beta version to do a direct examination.
I think I've should have done this directly. I just cant get any of these commands to work. I will try a couple of things more. If I can't manage, please do help me by looking into the map. You will receive a pm if the time is right.

After some googling, there are certain pages sayin it either patched or removed due exploits. Such as this page on UT99.org:

https://ut99.org/viewtopic.php?t=5624&p=70810:
RememberSpot and ShowPath cute for debugging no longer works in 451, only as admin, and are a sort of dumbness since WayBeacon has no RemoteRole - is invisible On-Line but still spams console pointless - it would be better to be totally removed from dedicated servers if is causing lags or fixing it, rather than monkeying a supposed fixation. Amazing these fixes, right ? Else for 255 ban slots I think a decent server uses a general policy rule not that UT based, te, he... They implemented useless things in order to ruin what was good in 436.
I've got UT v436 with MH503 installed.

I'm struggling if this is version related. Is it, or I am just confused. Guess I am. :mrgreen:

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Re: Bots arent leaving spawn.

Post by Nelsona » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:49 pm

In 451 still works OFF-Line but... 451 is not a bless for mapping so... for 436 it works as you see in picture above.

Version 503 is just... MonsterHunt. Debugging commands are native coming with UT so they works as long as are used well.

Because it is week-end, I have some time available to toy around... Let's see, try to find in Skype users an ID sektor2111.

The only exploit of this command is forcing engine to scan paths as is doing Bot. Given wickness of old servers (hardware used in the past) this could be a way to lag servers causing malfunctions. Now days I have some "stuff" written by different people and this exploit in forcing engine is a small kid comparing with other "toys" meant to ruin so In my games I'm using intensive stuff based on pathing finding (because is a native UT stuff) is not a hack or such. Of course I wrapped a bit things using another player type which is not brutalizing logs like that original way. These things can be spoken in private and/or tested more or less successfully.

For your map, if you have a hard zone then is possible to put some love in MyLevel making Bot to get mad and even showing some BT skill, making noobs to feel ashamed...

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Re: Bots arent leaving spawn.

Post by Terraniux » Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:55 pm

Allright, thanks for the help so far! :D

The skype communication depends on where you're from, which country. I'm NL. EU time zone. guess we're GMT since we are mostly west of europe, not east (EST)
This weekend I'm full, maybe next weekend. But I can send you the map.
I'll send you a pm this weekend.

Never mastered bothpathing as a skill, never will it seems.

I'm full of it, just completely done with it :?

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Re: Bots arent leaving spawn.

Post by Nelsona » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:17 am

I'm on GMT+2.00 Cairo,Bucharest time. There is no big difference.

Shht, 6 years ago I did not know anything Bot related, why in that map things are OK and in other is not. I have learned these because... I loved to learn them, it was a hobby not a must. Other people involved earlier seems to missed this class. To explain in short terms if you can understand how things work, pathing is piece of cake if doesn't include special stunts. Geometry is more challenging than Bot Support.

Talking about thread, if map doesn't include "specials" to force engine closer to blowup stage Bot support works as long as absolute all paths (distances between nodes) are enough closer to be counted as reachable IN GAME, Editor presented me some blues many times but they not worked in game being too far or simply some BSP ledges were screwing navigation using normal pawn locomotion so engine was denying that path - or simply Editor configured bad reachspecs. This is the main issue that might happens.
I found the way for debugging looking into codes (lecturing scripts exported with editor) else tutorials g00gle-able aren't truly available being packed in archives stored here and there and challenging people.

Aside note: Old pages (even incomplete) from Epic aren't On-Line anymore, but there are archives as they were ripped, I have mounted and calibrated such a tutorial in one of my machines for handy info like in original and completed by me with observations (to not forget issues). This way works for me as long as I couldn't fix information in Epic's servers but in my machines I can do what I want anytime being "up-to-date".

I was hunting a Wiki Unreal related but it seems a lot of work to modify all links and might be required MYSQL which I don't like in my systems...

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Re: Bots arent leaving spawn.

Post by Nelsona » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:23 pm

Firsts troubles found:
- The Brushes-Soup in first area seems to mess navigation. Why ? Because after first mover, once left Start Location pathing works - It needs a revision at those solids intersected;
- First Lift is unpathed;
- Items placed hidden are generating paths into void outside of Level - a pawn won't follow path in a null zone and these are part of desirability;
- Some node (on stair) is lower placed and other nodes a bit too high.

I was trying to track a path to first Button where a MonsterWayPoint could attract Bot, simply because of wrong start area, they won't leave the place. After following me "forced" they started hunting normally.

Fix geometry from that start area first, and we can talk about Navigation later. Else spoken Map seems to support Bot action but Not in Start Location. Given the start Location problem Navigation in that area won't ever work. The rest of map seems navigable.

Use zoning to gain more speed in visibility.

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Re: Bots arent leaving spawn.

Post by Nelsona » Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:41 pm

Other things to clarify, Teleporters at beginning of Map are all active. Way back seems bugged with other string, maybe some FavoriteTeleporter will stop spamming Teleporter messages.

In their "free time" Bots are able to discover Stinger if all Waypoints are completed.
I think they can end map if all paths are added.

The Big-Lift has been tweaked well, if they fall by accident in that lower area probably will return successfully on battle-field, secondary lift has been attached in Navigation network.

Will you do a rework at primary Location?

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Re: Bots arent leaving spawn.

Post by Terraniux » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:42 am

Ok good to know.
But are you sure you got the right version opened? Seems you are checking the version on the server and the one I send you. Please advice only the version in the .rar package.

- Never knew sheets were recognized as collision by bots.
- Some items and weapons are in the void indeed, but hasn't any pathnodes near to attract bots, do they still try to reach it?
- Zones, if it improves the map speed, lets do it.
-Teleporters are for testing purposes to quickly switch between spawnpoints.

Yes let me know what to remove, and what to add.

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Re: Bots arent leaving spawn.

Post by Nelsona » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:44 am

It was a rar archive, map has nodes set green shinny DT_Sprite. Problems are in first area.

Is not Bot problem. Engine seems unable to deal with those ADD brushes drilled later by a Subtract, It might bug pawn physics detection required for navigation - mainly after my logic 3 ADD seems more than one Subtract it could be a massive solid everything there DevPath might interpret this as ghosting in wall - no travel (I presume this because in any other zone without multiple brush ADDs everything works great). Maybe you have to clip brushes letting Subtract alone without colliding 2 Solids. For the rest of map is a charm to see Bots fighting. For this wrong area I put some brute force tweakers else I couldn't move them and neither me using paths.

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