Bots - Why?

[Reiyel_3.0]

Hey guys

Well, as some of you know, I like and play quite often DM and CTF. I think it´s challenging to play against another good players and it´s also funny.

However, there are lots and lots of DM servers which are full of bots. Yes, many of them configure the bots to have like 8 players in a match. So, many times I´ve found myself fighting against 1 or 2 real players and like 5 or 6 bots.

My question is, why? I can understand having a bot to have a minimun of 2 players; but why ruin the fun by making it a bot hunt? If I´d want to kill bots I´d play offline; but if I go to find some server it´s because I wanna challenge a real player. Playing 1 on 1 is way more funny and challenging than fighting against 1 real player and 6 lame bots.

Since I understand you have some Deemer DM servers, I´d like you to explain me why admins like to set up bots on their servers.

[Hook]

On {CMM} you have a CHOICE!
(most servers do NOT do this)
Play with OR without bots!
Bots are there just until other players join is all.
And, on {CMM}, they are custom tweaked for Redeemer and also Named after HUTP Members and Friends so they are more realistic and can add a bit to the game at times.
Many of {CMM}'s Bots will actually Shoot a Deemer and RUN from you so they won't get the blast from you.
Totally agree with you though - REAL Players are the very Best for sure!

This makes me think a bit though - I May take out a few of them. (not sure)
Quite a few players actually Like the Bots so I gotta have them still!

PS: More "NB" maps will be added shortly - next thing I was planning.
("NB" = No Bots)

[MEAT]

Bots...it's a dead horse I've beated for years and no one understands it but me.
I've been a advocate against bots from day one...that's roughly 7 years ago.
My reason being is I hated to lose against people that killed 30 bots before
I did. And that's the way it was at CG and probably still is and other servers.
You had your so called "better players" spraying at spawn points and winning.
And then they would turn around and say they were better then you....lol
But all they did was kill bots and not me? Whatever.
To me that was bullshit...but that's what your so called "better players" did.
They won by spraying at spawn points and killing bots.
And I spoke up against this type of playing and people chastised me for that.
Basically that's what lead me to starting my own server...and I was hated for
trying to change the world...lol

Anyway, being that UT 99 is not as busy as years past (dying) it's now a
necessity to have bots so people (of lesser skill) won't leave. It's just that
people hate to lose against other real (better) people...it makes them feel inferior.
Don't get me starter on this topic...lol


History lesson and I've got more:

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[Hook]

I've been a advocate against bots from day one ... My reason being is I hated to lose against people that killed 30 bots before I did.
And that's the way it was at CG and probably still is and other servers.
They won by spraying at spawn points and killing bots.

Actually, I don't recall it being like that at all.
(Hermskii, Scify, Mahatma, Flatus, SilentBob, Etc., and Any players that played before 2004 (or so) will agree with me on this I am sure)
I rarely (if ever) even Saw a bot in a server back then. (not until more recent times - say past 2004 or 2005 anyway)
Bots were almost unheard of on any server that had regular players.
Virtually all servers that were played at all were pretty much packed and the 4, 5 or 6 or Whatever, bots they may have had in them were always replaced by the shear number of Real Players playing.
Especially servers like SRA and CG - you had to get in line to get in!
I spent a lot of time just trying to Ace-Out other players and get into servers before they did.
Usually you had to sit out a map and alternate between some other servers trying to get in, and rotating between a number of favorite servers playing any that might get an opening.
Bots? - Huh! - Didn't even see them 99% of the time.
A lot of those "better players" were better, and to actually Beat them you had to Really be on your toes.
Sometimes I thought some of them were virtually miraculous how they played and won most of the time.
I actually won some times back then and I was on Dial-up! (a good number were back then on dial-up)
No slow play - hiding around and waiting for someone to fire and having plenty of time to react.
You had to move it boy and get on top of things ASAP or it would be real hard to catch up and overcome them if you didn't.
Lots of fast-paced action for sure.
As far as "Spraying" goes? - Happens on ALL servers - no exceptions.
That depends on the Player himself and how he chooses to play for the most part, and may be only influenced some by how the server itself is set up.
(Also - "Spraying" (or fishing for hits/frags) - should Not to be confused with "Strategic Firing" or "Pattern Firing" that takes more skill for sure)
I don't have a lot of problem with it (spraying) myself, but it will just let everybody know where the sprayer is, is all, and he'll soon be blown to powder.
Bots being a necessity to have so people (of lesser skill) won't leave? Lesser skill? - Maybe, maybe not. Some players like them in the mix is all and has nothing to do with their skill - I see this a lot - they deal with bots AND Real Players alike.
But, as far as I am concerned, players can play any way they like - I don't care - as long as they are having FUN!
If you get enough players having FUN - the bots go away on their own anyway.
Bots - Love 'em or hate 'em - they are both Annoying and also can add some spice to games if done right.
Bots - Like women - Can't live with or without them. LOL!
I myself have Fun Playing ANY which way.

[MEAT]

I've been a advocate against bots from day one ... My reason being is I hated to lose against people that killed 30 bots before I did.
And that's the way it was at CG and probably still is and other servers.
They won by spraying at spawn points and killing bots.

Actually, I don't recall it being like that at all.
(Hermskii, Scify, Mahatma, Flatus, SilentBob, Etc., and Any players that played before 2004 (or so) will agree with me on this I am sure)
I rarely (if ever) even Saw a bot in a server back then. (not until more recent times - say past 2004 or 2005 anyway)
Bots were almost unheard of on any server that had regular players.

Yeah, I would say by 2004 bots were plentiful...because I RAN off most
of the regulars from CG. And of the regulars back then Mahatma was one of the
"better players" that I remember. The others were mostly bot killers/spawn killers.
Because I remember back then not ALL servers were packed 24/7.
Sure some were busy and some had moments and regulars but never 24/7.
And when it wasn't packed you had bot killers/spawn killers.

In fact I don't remember anyone going by the name of "Hook"?
Did you have a different name back then? I see you didn't start posting
here until 2007?
Anyway, I was around back then and I saw bot killing or to be politically
correct 'spawn killing" by everyone...that's what you did on smaller maps.
And that's what you still do on servers that use smaller maps.

And to get slighty off topic here...it was the player that found or had
that strategic location within a map that usually won.
It had nothing about being on your toes. It was the player that knew
the map and entered before anyone else.
And again, this person won because he was spraying at spawn points killing real
players as well as bots.
And like I said, that was the way you had to play back then to win.

Anyway, I guess it all depends on each players preceptive. But for me
"being one of the best redeemer players ever" this is how I saw it.

[Hook]

MEAT...
Reading your last reply I realized that You and I must have played at different times of the day for the most part as I still stand by what I said about hardly encountering bots in the packed servers of the good old days.
I usually played like I do now, On Friday and Saturday nights from near midnight until about 2 to 3 am (Sometimes until 4 am) - or the wee hours.
Hermskii did also, as I remember taking smoke breaks as he did and others too during these wee hour games.
You would be just Shaking with adrenaline and puffing away on the cig! LOL

But when I read the following part, I didn't know whether to Laugh or get Angry!?!?

In fact I don't remember anyone going by the name of "Hook"?
Did you have a different name back then? I see you didn't start posting
here until 2007?

You were actually questioning MY existence in UT and here? LOL
I am pretty sure I used "Hook" as my name!?!?
My early days of Redeemer were obviously before your time and just slightly overlapped your beginning days.
I wasn't a Real "Regular" on the old servers, and I didn't "hang out" with the regulars that much, (I had my own "flock" and UT site to tend), but I would play Redeemer probably 1 or 2 times out of 5 times playing online.
I got good enough to be a "contender" in the Deemer Servers. LOL Usually finishing in the middle scoring.
If the really good players weren't playing, I would win enough to be satisfied.
Most of the time I played DM, where I really shined (I used to be quite good), and also quite a bit of CTF with some Sniper here and there.
OK - a Rough History of me Here - AGAIN - Just to REFRESH.
I Played UT since the Demo came out (mid 99?) - on my son-in-law's comp - then he bought me my copy of UT in 2000.
I Started playing online normal game types and became quite good.
I Started Mapping in January of 2001 - First Map was DM-FragginsteinCastle.
Started occasionally playing Redeemer Arena back then.
I had met Hermskii playing I believe - He gave me his e-mail address.
I had him Beta-Playtest DM-FragginsteinCastle - He liked - He put it on his/their servers - it has been on them since the old days and Still is on CG.
I think Hermskii joined MY old MSN site (as did RAIN and a few other veterans of HOH and RI) way back around 2001 and then I joined his site (HOH) and Redeemer Insanity also.
About my membership HERE? "starting" in 2007? - As with others like...
KidCapri, Vette, RAIN, MickeyD and others that had to RE-Register here because their old registration somehow disappeared, Same thing with MY old registration.
I had to re-register at RI (Redeemer Insanity) also - back in 2005 I believe as I had left playing redeemer for a few years there in the early to mid 2000's.

AS far as the "spawn-killing"? (aka - Loop-Of-Poop) - I didn't really get in it all that often.
When I did, it wasn't that difficult to get out of it.
I just held down the firebutton when spawning - 1 or 2 times firing from the spawn loop (in different directions) usually neutralized the Spawn Killer.
You could usually tell where the missiles were coming from after a spawn or 2.
Once out of the loop you ran like hell to get a good position to fire on or ride and glide your way up the score card.

I think I DO vaguely remember playing with you (in a group) in the later days of my first stretch of my redeemer game days. (early 2001 to ?)
If I remember, you were not that good and here and there got angry for reasons I didn't even pay attention to?!?!
I think we even chatted a time or 2, in-game, now that I think about it.

OK - Back to the Thread Subject (ahem)...
Now Days? - Bots are needed to keep the game going until real players (or More OF them), join in on a game.
It takes time to attract more Players to a server now as they first look for populated servers.
You join a server and wait for other real players to Notice that you, a real player, is populating a server.
That is when you start really playing and you need the bots to keep you from going stir-crazy until the real players start showing up.
Like at {CMM}, once you get a few real players playing, you can choose maps from the NB (NO Bot) 4th Column, ergo eliminating the bots!

[MEAT]

lol...again I think it really depends on each persons preceptive, amount of time played, as well as
skill level when making rational comments and giving opinions.
Yeah I to remember Hermskii's smoke breaks and I probably drank just as much Budweiser as he did when playing
and yeah we all sucked when we first starting playing this game and yeah
we all played for hours on in...however only a few of us got better...and you're not one of them.
So with time played and knowledge learned (maps, bots, spawning points...etc) one
acheives a better understanding or preceptive on how things should work or have worked.
And this is probably where you and I differ...?

[Killer Klownz]

however only a few of us got better...and you're not one of them.

Double ouchie and a Klownz laugh thrown in for good measure . . . .

[MEAT]

however only a few of us got better...and you're not one of them.

Double ouchie and a Klownz laugh thrown in for good measure . . . .

Well I wasn't trying to be mean...I wouldn't do that...
I'm just saying better players have a different look at things.
We see the game and all it's components in a larger light.
And I've argued the existence and purpose of bots from day one.
I even convinced Hermskii to remove some of his bots in the earlier days.
And I've beaten a many dead horses on the subject of spawn killing.
Is there a right or wrong answer?
Sure there is but some people just don't get it.

[Hook]

however only a few of us got better...and you're not one of them.

I beg to differ with your Opinion of my "skills".
Well, as I said - I became a contender and I WAS pretty darn good!
I DID get better - then I let myself go years back and quit trying to be one of the best.
Age has also taken away a lot of my edge that I used to have years ago! (really!!!)
No need to be the best or better or whatever (not my Bag anymore) - I have FUN - I have been playing more for FUN and also for looking at the maps and scenery for the past several years.
Another BIG thing in my book of UT is the Friendship, Conversation and Comradeship I experience when playing UT - Whether I Win or Loose!
I still can beat most players I play with, given the gumption and motivation and I choose to, even at my present skill.

We see the game and all it's components in a larger light.

Maybe "different" light would be a better word here.
Many of us look at the game in a Large Light - but maybe it is just a Different Large light!?!?

Right or Wrong answer? - No - It is different for Each and Every Player I think.
AS long as we have different players, we will always have different Opinions on these things we argue about.

I myself "Get" what you mean - and for the most part I agree with you.
But, and this is MY BIG Point here, to Dictate what all other players SHOULD do and SHOULD Like and allow or Not allow is - as you say - Beating Dead Horses!
You cannot make everybody think like you do and Like to play the way You do.

[Killer Klownz]

I still can beat most players I play with, given the gumption and motivation and I choose to, even at my present skill. [

Klownz will take a piece of that . . .

[MEAT]

I still can beat most players I play with, given the gumption and motivation and I choose to, even at my present skill. [

Klownz will take a piece of that . . .

If only we had screen shots...?

[Reiyel_3.0]

Well, I can see some of you actually dislike bots like me and others believe they´re part of the game. I understand that, if you´re just trying to have fun and goof around bots can be OK; however, if you are thinking about being more competitive well, bots should not interfere when you´re hunting other players

And how about the rest of you? Many of us also play normal weps or insta DM and CTF. You also dislike bots? xD

[-HellFire-]

Bots are annoying and useless.
If I want to play bots I play single player.
Online play is meant to play against other players, not naab bots.

[MEAT]

Bots are annoying and useless.
If I want to play bots I play single player.
Online play is meant to play against other players, not naab bots.

Very well put and I agree.
Bots are designed as fillers (to fill a void when no real players are present)...basically for practice.
And the sad reality is, being that UT99 is slow, we have bots as fillers, as ego builders and easy points.

But you're right HellFire and YOU do think like a real player of the game.
And as a real player that likes to compete against real players there is only ONE answer to the question.


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